Heated floor: purge, maintenance and operation

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Christophe
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Heated floor: purge, maintenance and operation




by Christophe » 29/10/07, 10:05

Heated floors are great to use but what is it boring to adjust and return to service ...

Especially when you don't have the "house manual" ... : Cheesy:

We therefore put our heated floor installation back into service by proceeding as follows:

a) complete emptying
b) washing the circuit by injecting mains water in order to clear the circuit and especially the loops
c) draining the washing water (loaded with sludge)
d) re-pressurizing the circuit, starting the circulator
e) floor / floor opening / closing (starting from the highest, or rather farthest from the circulator) to expel the air

We stabilized the pressure at 2 bars ...

Steps b) and c) were repeated as many times as possible, in our case a good ten times.

In terms of maintenance, I found this on the net (but it does not only concern PCs):
http://perso.orange.fr/bernard.pironin/ ... ecbt01.htm

a) Pathologies.

For this type of circuit, the pathologies are those linked to corrosion and its consequence: the sludge of the networks.

It is also possible in the case of frequent supply of unsoftened water a risk of scaling which due to the temperatures reached locally - in generator - will be systematic (if the local temperature of the water goes above 80ºC we have decomposed bicarbonates which lead to the formation of carbonates) and cumulative if the water has a non-zero TH and that additions are made.

However, the first risk of sludge is linked:

For circuits made of "black" steel with the presence of scale which will detach from the walls upon the first heating and will form sludge; We cannot stress enough for these networks the need to carry out a rigorous cleaning before putting into service with a detergent.

It must be possible to recover this sludge in capacities specially designed for this purpose. For this, we can use distribution bottles - hydraulic separation or a "sludge pot"; this should be supplemented by drain points at the bottom of each column. It should be remembered that the "black" steel tube owes its name to its appearance: produced hot iron reacts with oxygen to form black iron oxides called scale.

For all circuits with the presence of manufacturing waste, materials introduced during manufacturing - brazing flux, filings, foundry sand -, foreign materials related to storage and handling - sands, plaster, cement, dead leaves, … The waiting pipes must be plugged, systematic removal of foreign bodies, ensuring that the storage of waiting parts is carried out free from contamination,…

Mention may also be made, in the case of “grids” of heated floors, of the risk associated with the use of dirty water (“the mason's water barrel”) during pressurization operations for testing and coating the tubes. In the case of "grids" the use of an antifreeze, which may be necessary during work in the cold season, must be checked: this can "turn vinegar", and should be removed after work if it does not. is not necessary.

This detachment of the scale can be explained by the fact that these ferrous oxides react with the oxygen in the water to form ferric oxides whose volume is greater. This swelling leads to detachment; these oxides then react in the absence of oxygen to again form ferrous oxides which will be found in suspension in the water of the networks.


b) Treatments.

The characteristics of this type of circuit, the materials used and the physical conditions lead to deduce from it the precautions to be taken and the additional water treatments.

We must make the cleanest network possible:

* Ensure the storage of tubes and equipment on unsullied areas; systematically eliminate all manufacturing waste and seal the openings of the tubes and equipment on standby;
* After cleaning, carry out a cleaning of the networks with a leaching solution adapted to the materials encountered: this leaching will be followed by draining and prolonged rinsing; Note: leaching will remove particles that will form sludge (scale from steels and cast iron) which can be trapped in vases located on the returns - the hydraulic separation bottles can play this role.
* Filtration equipment is recommended after the first washings; some also have "magnetic filters" which can capture magnetizable oxides (black ferrous oxides).
* We must be able to control the back-ups: systematic installation of a counter;
* The exhaust of the air during filling and the degassing of the water during reheating must be able to be carried out easily: automatic isolating purge for changing the trap coupled with a manual purge at any high point (obstacle passage; distribution bottle - hydraulic separation).
* The water must not be able to provide salts liable to create scaling: softening on resins.
* An oxygen reducer can be used provided:
- That it is compatible with DHW production by simple exchange if this is the case (the highly toxic hydrazine is excluded for example in this case - generally it is not used for collective heating circuits );
- That it cannot lead to bacterial corrosion (case of sulphites in very low temperature circuits which can be "fuels" for corrosion by sulphate-reducing bacteria).


Do you have hydrazine? :D
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by Christophe » 29/10/07, 10:42

A "small" link more oriented towards technology and sizing: http://perso.orange.fr/herve.silve/plan ... uffant.htm

Be careful, it's serious stuff" :)
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by jean63 » 10/11/07, 01:34

Christophe wrote:A "small" link more oriented towards technology and sizing: http://perso.orange.fr/herve.silve/plan ... uffant.htm

Be careful, it's serious stuff" :)

Super this link, we will be able to discuss concretely on the other subject Schematic wood boiler for DHW and heated floors because there is some information that I knew before reading this which probably explains the enormous inertia of your soil (5 to 6 hours, it's huge, which would suggest that you may not have PER in the ground but steel at great depth). At home, it takes a maximum of 2 hours to be at temperature with a hot water flow at 30 ° C.

We talk about everything on the other subject as soon as I have a moment.

We will advance the schmilblickkkk ...... together.
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by jean63 » 20/11/07, 16:58

Here I found this sludge removal product by chance (displayed at the top of the "econology" page by google) =>

www.sentinel-solutions.net/en/heating/X400

Quote:
Closed systems:: if the system is empty, add the product to the desired access points before filling. If the system is full, use a Sentinel Injection Pump to inject the product through the filling loop or other access point.


Specialists, what do you think?

In my case I think you need an injection pump mentioned in the text.

I will ask the manufacturer for information on PE pipes.
Last edited by jean63 the 04 / 12 / 07, 23: 17, 1 edited once.
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by cm34230 » 04/12/07, 16:42

to all those who like me have had or have problems with sludge on their heating installation I have just discovered a specialized site on it: www.genio.fr
For once they are (apparently) thermal specialists and not salespeople
bye bye and thank you to ECONOLOGIE for their info
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by jean63 » 04/12/07, 23:16

cm34230 wrote:to all those who like me have had or have problems with sludge on their heating installation I have just discovered a specialized site on it: www.genio.fr
For once they are (apparently) thermal specialists and not salespeople
bye bye and thank you to ECONOLOGIE for their info

OK but it's not given:
BWV.910 type B

Sludge, corrosion and limestone treatment for:

heating systems up to 50 kW
Maximum flow 2 m3 / h - Connection diameter: 50 mm (2 inches) - Weight 1,5 kg

BWV.910 public price = € 706 incl.
5-year manufacturer's warranty - Efficiency = 20 years


Is your network really blocked? What is going on ? is it a heated floor?

Have you looked at the sentinel products I mentioned above?
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