Wood flooring and underlay

[Pat-Garrett]

Here are pictures

an image of the tiling towards a window door:


a picture of the differences in tiling:


And an image of the recovered pallox boards, the edges are rounded, so I cannot groove them or others:


Voila!

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[loopyng84]

the fixing of the joists is very important because we quickly end up with a floor that cracks
with a good perfo and a good drill there is no reason that it is hassle
otherwise in the photos the floor looks flat
for glass wool on 1 cm why not, it can only be better

[bidouille23]

Hello
the only hassle for drilling into tiles or earthenware is when we do not want to explode the tiles, especially if they are of low quality .... To make a hole without this concern for the tiles that breaks, it there is no problem, well personally I am pierced by the tiles not just one or two, and I had had a problem ... still it is necessary to have true Hss forest in Sds for example and not necessarily buy them at brico merdo it's on ... as for the metal forests which do not even make a hole and become round and good for nothing (if they were good for something before ...)

if you have capillary lifts with or without joists the problem will be the same, in fact it all depends on what you mean by capillary lifts, personally I saw houses that once uninhabited ended up with puddles on the ground, if it is a little high humidity it is necessary that the wood which will take the humidity can release it and dry otherwise it will simply rot, especially fir ...

so as Hamed advisor said, it is not necessarily obvious without knowing the real situation ...

Does the water rise through the walls or through the ground, or both?

what is the situation of the house?

Is there drainage on the outer periphery (1 m from the minimum walls for the drain on a stone house)?

In all cases the installation on the joist will automatically be better in case of humidity ...

At worst, you place the joists under each anchoring point with a nylon sheet for example (like 4 to 5 mm thick) every 45cm approximately, this will prevent the joists from pumping too much water and air will be able to circulate on all faces ...

Otherwise the other concern that can arise is the expansion of the wood (since it is fir it will not grow too much but still), so in the presence of water the wood expands, and contracts when it dries, so if you put your plank together and they are dry, if they get wet they go swollen and suddenly pushed each other, if by chance it comes touched the wall is the wave assured in the floor (so do not hesitate to let two or three good cm in the periphery the mini being a thickness of board, no board should touch the walls).

In the case where they are not dry, by drying you will have holes which will appear, even when they believe that a floor and that it has been tightened well, the blades often end up contracting a little more and the joined parquet no longer has it, that's why there are grooves and tongues ...

Regarding the fixing of the boards in the joists, opt for two studs per joist whether on the edge or on the faces, and plant the nails diagonally not straight, and in a different axis each time, this avoids the nail to get out as dilation contraction and end up with a floor that squeaks at all ends when you walk on it ...;) ...


assessment so personal I would opt for joists, fix on the ankle to hit
and wedged underneath with a material that does not fear humidity (as for a terrace in fact;)).

then as for the planks I would have the tongues and grooves made by a carpenter or sawyer or anyone who has a spinning top in fact, otherwise it is guaranteed to appear during the day unless stuffed with tow on the boats when the calfate have ....

[Pat-Garrett]

Good ok to fix the joists by drilling, it will definitely kill the stones and the tiles for future occupants according to us but OK...

Hello
if you have capillary lifts with or without joists the problem will be the same, in fact it all depends on what you mean by capillary lifts, personally I saw houses that once uninhabited ended up with puddles on the ground, if it is a little high humidity it is necessary that the wood which will take the humidity can release it and dry otherwise it will simply rot, especially fir ...

so as Hamed advisor said, it is not necessarily obvious without knowing the real situation ...

Does the water rise through the walls or through the ground, or both?

Well compared to the house you talk about with puddles, me it's nothing !!

The house was uninhabited for a year before we arrived, the walls were stained and black.
Since then it is better (2nd year) but there are traces of humidity in some walls. Nothing visible on the ground.

What I wanted was to avoid making the case worse with a non-breathable underlay, as some have experienced with an ITE.
But since everyone seems to agree on the fact that it is not necessary to stick on an under layer but with joists (which I would fill with loose-fill insulation), it will be breathable so a priori more concern for this rated there ... well I hope

At worst, you place the joists under each anchoring point with a nylon sheet for example (like 4 to 5 mm thick) every 45cm approximately, this will prevent the joists from pumping too much water and air will be able to circulate on all faces ...

As for fixing the blades in the joists, opt for two studs per joist whether on the edge or on the faces, and plant the nails diagonally not straight, and in a different axis each time, this avoids the nail to be released as the contraction expands and end up with a floor that squeaks at all ends when you walk on it ...;)

Good idea actually to protect the joists, like a vapor barrier film for the floor that I cut, is that the nylon film you are talking about?

Otherwise I could not make the boards groove (they are rounded so that the water does not stagnate on them to avoid rotting when they are used in pallox), which also prevents me from laying diagonal nails on the edge ...

Wouldn't a sika 11FC glue point do the job?
Allowing for expansion, avoiding squeaking and laying a nail right in the middle of the board.

On the joist side, the width of the room is 4 to 5m, I will extend them by juxtaposing them and fixing them between them.
Which base to use for joists? CP is at risk of warping?

- EDIT:
The problem of joists with floor without grooving reminds me of the subject on the floor based on pallets
https://www.econologie.com/forums/bricoler-u ... t7945.html and the response of

In particular, do not forget that in a floor, the boards have a tongue / groove and all the blades fit together and are integral! There you will have independent blades. As soon as you press a blade, it will flex. So move, squeak ... Be careful also at the foot of the furniture ... You risk having breakage in loaded places.

2cm thick is not bad and not as much as it actually so will have to put joists every 40 cm (half a board).

It was precisely by reading this thread that I started on the idea of ​​a direct installation on tiles with dots of glue.

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[bidouille23]

Hello ,

In terms of humidity nothing like ventilation;), if watertight house mandatory vmc, otherwise the regulatory openings at the top of doors and windows and the opening in large for at least 10 minutes per day is sufficient. ..

So if you have a slight humidity by capillarity in the feet of walls, personally I would not even ask myself the question of ventilation or not, do not forget that your tiles are placed on a screed which is waterproof because made of concrete (or in lime mortar but good no worries either).

Assessment a pose of under layer floor does not seem impossible to me, but in any case with solid the joists are almost obligatory unless you want to redo your floor regularly ...;)


Your loose insulator on the other hand I would not put it against the walls;) .... unless it is cork of course ...

Good idea actually to protect the joists, like a vapor barrier film for the floor that I cut, is that the nylon film you are talking about?

no I'm talking about real piece of nylon or other plastic plate in which you can cut shims, the simple 200 micron polyane plastic film comes back to putting nothing because you lose the little air gap that you create with real shims from 4 to 5 mm thick ...

Otherwise I could not make the boards groove (they are rounded so that the water does not stagnate on them to avoid rotting when they are used in pallox), which also prevents me from laying diagonal nails on the edge ...

I don't see any problem with making tongue and groove even with rounded edges .... after it is a choice you will see well with use;) ...

in any case even if you nail over it is a nail at each end of the board (in the width direction and by joist) and the nails planted diagonally like that the wood that works does not take out the nail;) , over time ...

But wait for you without groove and tongue to have days appearing, and if you triop the boards at the start and the boards are very dry if it takes up enough moisture for swelling, you risk having one or two surprises see planks that will lift straight up ....
The glue will do nothing. Then what said did67 is not wrong except as you said if you manage the spacing of your joists, but you will always have a little spring effect, and the stripping can be unpleasant when walking on it (a bit like walking on an unsanded floor, or a tile that has tiles that are not level) ...

Last thing, I don't know what you call glue dots , but in any case the 11fc will not allow you to prevent the movement of the boards one in relation to the others (can be expensive expensive special wood ??? but I do not guarantee, and hello the consumption of glue and job ) ...

tongue and groove is 100 times simpler ....


a yes for the junctions, they are done on a joist since you do not have a tongue groove;) ... and you can try with a piece of plank underneath but it is very likely not to do it at all, or else you put shims that touch the ground at the junctions ...

a yes if you have days that appear between the boards do not forget not to drop a little thing like room on the ground because you risk making a giant piggy bank with your floor, and if you put kind of cotton wool cellulose underneath, and that you have a flexible effect on the blades you will create a foot inflator effect and undoubtedly you will have regular cotton wool which will go up through the slits, if you have a good vacuum cleaner and you like to pass it very very regularly and you like to breathe dust regularly so actually everything will be fine;) ....

now if the humidity is very very low the movement of the boards will be too, so everything that was said before will not necessarily happen , there is no exact science each case is a case apart .... basically it's a splash splash, either it's cool or it is to be done again .... see if you want to do it again once you're done .....

in the limit put a board in your living room you measure it before and in a month you see what it gives by remeasuring it, to get an idea of ​​the dilation or contraction, but we are in the spring (whatever ), so in winter and autumn there will be more water so reverse effect in theory of what you will observe now ...

But your boards are beautiful so it's worth it if they are not full of critters to work on it and make something of it I am 100% in agreement with you.

[Pat-Garrett]

ok for ventilation, it's clear, I have already added ventilation through the exterior wall, it is 2 opposite the room 8m long, especially that I will ask a wood stove!
The new French windows and double glazed windows will have ventilation.

The room is L one side facing south and the other facing east.

otherwise I don't understand what you mean about the insulation that you wouldn't put against the wall, you mean that on the floor, under the floor, you wouldn't hang it along the wall, because of the free space for the expansion of the floor under the baseboards? That's it ?

ok for the nylon shims, I got it!

Well I have constraints of time, budget and not the equipment to remove the rounding of the boards and groove them ...
And worse I would have a giant piggy bank or especially ants that will come to eat the crumbs, it is a risk indeed, otherwise I must join all the blades ....

Otherwise I think to prepare the floor by 80x40 slab for example (I would choose after the most practical dimension) so as to screw the boards to the joists from below, so as not to see the screws or walk on them, I would let the joists exceed a little on each side to pass them under the other tiles and stiffen the whole.
What changes the game to fill with insulation ...

Otherwise, good idea, I'm going to put witness boards all over the room to see how they fit!

Yes it is clear, I am well aware that we are talking about the worst here, and that surely a part will not happen but at least I would have been warned and I would have made my choice knowingly!
And in that I thank you, it is a precious help !!!

[Pat-Garrett]

Well the windows have been changed which is the basis of good insulation, great !!

The problem is that the reserve of 3cm provided is a short coat and the underside of the window doors rubs a little too much.
In addition with the joists the boards come up against the PVC flap which ends under the French doors ...
so here the window doors have chosen for me: without joists, without underlay!


On the right without joists, it goes under the mud flap it's clean, on the left with the joists we see the end of the boards, it's not finished ....

seen in the other direction, from the outside:

On the right, with the joists, we see the edge of the boards ...

for info the test with the joists:

It would of course have required twice as many joists, all around 40cm.

So I'm going to stick the boards with sika..x11 directly on the tiles ...
It will serve as a test lab, we will see what it will give and how long it takes !!

In the meantime, I am gradually bringing the boards into the house so that they can acclimatize and I will wait for the end of the hot weather and a more common humidity level ...

More later ...

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[Pat-Garrett]

Good, news ..

As some had expected, it does not top.
With a test area, the problem is splinters (small children who run and fall often) and the connection between the boards at the end across the width rarely falls just and therefore the foot often abuts.
In addition, without treatment the wood stains quickly ...

But we are satisfied to have tried!


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