Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?

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Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Christophe » 26/11/18, 09:28

This is what the authors of this video claim, if it turns out it's (very) heavy, it's martial and putschist as a message ... are they right? Let's try to clarify this!

On Youtube:



On Facebook:



Some links to see more clearly.

a) Decree of 6 December 2016: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... g4RW6M6Ofw

b) The end of the separation of powers by the World (June 2017): https://www.lemonde.fr/idees/article/20 ... _3232.html

There is no more separation of powers in France!

In a forum in the "World", a group of lawyers considers that the bill "reinforcing the fight against terrorism and internal security", on the agenda of the Council of Ministers on Thursday 22 June, is an attack flagrant to the rule of law.

TRIBUNE. "The situation was serious, but what did it prove? This proved that even more exceptional measures were needed, "wrote Albert Camus in La Peste. In a few weeks, the term state of emergency should no longer have place. However, we must not rejoice because the cassandres, so superbly ignored, who feared the worst, see their worst predictions come true: as early as January 2017, the National Consultative Commission on Human Rights (CNCDH ) was thus worried about the risk of "habituation" of French society to this state of emergency.

Published 8 June 2017, the draft law "reinforcing the fight against terrorism", which should allow, in the long term, to lift the state of emergency by incorporating certain exceptional provisions in the common law, is in this pernicious logic. Let's immediately recall some evidence.

If our societies are democratic, it is not only thanks to the votes, but also and especially thanks to the separation of powers: the legislature decides, the executive acts and the judiciary controls the latter. It is this precious balance that the government is wavering today.

(...)


c) The same World breaks the hypotheses exposed in the video: https://www.lemonde.fr/les-decodeurs/ar ... 55770.html

No, France has not lost its Constitution

A rumor wacky, but evoked by militants "yellow vests", claims that our country has more fundamental law since late 2016.

"The whole government is illegal because France no longer has a Constitution. The rumor, claiming that our country has become, in the greatest secrecy, a dictatorship, has been circulating for some months on social networks, and is experiencing a new life in the movement of "yellow vests", some of which distributed leaflets to this subject in Normandy, according to the story of a journalist. There are also YouTube videos with more than two hundred thousand shares sharing the same theory.

WHEREVER THIS RUMOR?
It goes back to 2016, where it is mentioned on several far-right or conspiracy sites (Polémia, Wikistrike, Stop Lies, etc.). This is a rather smoky legal analysis, which takes as its source a controversial decree signed by Manuel Valls, then prime minister.

This decree instituted a general inspectorate of justice, under the supervision of the ministry and charged with assessing "the activity, the functioning and the performance of the courts". But this decree provoked an uproar. The Court of Cassation, the highest court of the French judiciary, denounced, in a letter to the Prime Minister, the fact that the "supreme court of the judiciary [is] under the direct control of the government ( ...) break with the republican tradition observed until today.

A handful of conspiracy and nationalist figures will draw from this decree and the protests of the Court of Cassation quite strange conclusions: according to these few people, including Serge Petitdemange or Eric Fiorile, videographers conspiracy and nationalists, this decree, since it devotes a incursion of the executive power in the field of the judiciary, leads to the end of the separation of powers.

From this point of view, these few people believe, the Constitution of the Fifth Republic, which provides for this separation, has ipso facto ceased to exist.

WHY IS IT ANYTHING?
The analysis obviously has something to make any lawyer smile, even neophyte: the Constitution is a fundamental text, superior to laws and decrees, which can not change it, but must instead comply with his spirit. In addition, the law is not an exact science but a subject subject to interpretation and arbitration.

And indeed, another institution, the Council of State, finally canceled in March 2018 the famous decree of Manuel Valls, on the grounds that it did not respect the independence of the Court of Cassation.

But the smoky theory of the "end of the Constitution" continued to know its small success on the networks, especially in the margin of "yellow vests". It serves to justify that the power of Emmanuel Macron is "illegitimate" and can be overthrown.


The cancellation in March 2018: http://www.conseil-etat.fr/Decisions-Av ... -et-autres

Yes okay it's canceled in March 2018 ... uh but Macron was elected in ... May 2017, so we could think that the authors are rather in the right: France no longer did constitution between January 2017 and March 2018 ??

d) 1793 Declaration of Human Rights and Citizen https://www.conseil-constitutionnel.fr/ ... en-de-1789

e) Jasper Mader's chain: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLIrMX ... GfQ/videos where was the original video posted

Are there lawyers, sociologists or political scientists in the room to see things more clearly?
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Christophe
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Christophe » 26/11/18, 10:42

The video is available on Econology also: https://www.econologie.com/gilets-jaune ... 17-macron/
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Janic » 26/11/18, 11:16

at most the constitution is regularly flouted!
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Gaston » 26/11/18, 11:16

Christophe wrote:Yes okay it's canceled in March 2018 ... uh but Macron was elected in ... May 2017, so we could think that the authors are rather in the right: France no longer did constitution between January 2017 and March 2018 ??
It seems to me that the fact that a decree (later found to be anti-constitutional) has been published does not lead to the repeal of the constitution.

This "de facto abrogation" story is a hoax.
Does each time an illegal act is committed, we conclude that the law is "effectively annulled" :?:
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Christophe » 26/11/18, 11:45

Gaston wrote:It seems to me that the fact that a decree (later found to be anti-constitutional) has been published does not lead to the repeal of the constitution.

This "de facto abrogation" story is a hoax.


So he seems to you it's a humbug ... : Cheesy:

Gaston wrote:Does each time an illegal act is committed, we conclude that the law is "effectively annulled" :?:


Uh no and if it were the case the Laws would simply not exist anymore!

But this is a little different: we are talking about the most fundamental text of the state (and therefore the fundamental rights of the people) that would have been violated ...

In short for the moment I still do not know what to think of this "affair" ...

By the way, who are the 2 old men in the videos? The main actor reminds me of the "old guard" ... : Mrgreen:
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Gaston » 26/11/18, 12:17

Christophe wrote:
Gaston wrote:Does each time an illegal act is committed, we conclude that the law is "effectively annulled" :?:


Uh no and if it were the case the Laws would simply not exist anymore!
Exactly.

Christophe wrote:But this is a little different: we are talking about the most fundamental text of the state (and therefore the fundamental rights of the people) that would have been violated ...
I do not see how it's different.
Higher-level text is not canceled because lower-level text contradicts it.
The proof is that the lower-level text was withdrawn after a delay necessary for its study.

One could ask the question if the decree had been validated by the constitutional council, despite the fact that it is in contradiction with the constitution, but it is not the case.
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Christophe » 26/11/18, 12:40

Gaston wrote:Higher-level text is not canceled because lower-level text contradicts it.


If the lower text is applied against the upper text on a point, then the upper text is flawed and no longer applied on that point ... but that does not mean that the upper text is entirely canceled ... just that the point in question is flouted!

So there was still a problem or at least an attempt to "deconstruct" the constitution ... on one point!

Me I Goure? : Shock:
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Gaston » 26/11/18, 13:55

Christophe wrote:So there was still a problem or at least an attempt to "deconstruct" the constitution ... on one point!

Me I Goure? : Shock:

There was a mistake. Maybe even an attempt to pass in force.

But it should not be seen as an exceptional and unprecedented act.

When the Constitution of 23 July 2008 was revised, the exception of unconstitutionality was introduced which allows a litigant accused of the violation of a law to ask the Constitutional Council to verify that the text of law is in conformity to the constitution.
This is because we realized that many laws and decrees are not (or more) consistent with the constitution.
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by Christophe » 26/11/18, 19:54

Ahhh I understood: so it makes a baille that France is an unconstitutional dictatorship! : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Has France been an unconstitutional dictatorship between January 2017 and March 2018?




by GuyGadebois » 08/07/20, 19:24

With the ignominious Dupont Moretti, that is unlikely to get better. : Mrgreen:
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