Schematic wood boiler for DHW and heated floors

Heating, insulation, ventilation, VMC, cooling ... short thermal comfort. Insulation, wood energy, heat pumps but also electricity, gas or oil, VMC ... Help in choosing and implementation, problem solving, optimization, tips and tricks ...
Christophe
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Schematic wood boiler for DHW and heated floors




by Christophe » 08/11/07, 21:25

Diagram of installation / assembly of an almost final wood-fired boiler on this subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/installati ... t3494.html

1st performance record (or against performance and problems :D ) in a few weeks but hey normally ... it should be fine ...

Image

Edit on 29/11/07:

For comparison and to see the evolution between the 2 versions, here is the plan that is currently implemented and functional:

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Edit on 2/01/08:

Assembly change due to internal corrosion risks (see https://www.econologie.com/forums/traitement ... t4461.html ) of the DHW exchanger:

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Explanations regarding the latest version (2.1) from this page: https://www.econologie.com/forums/schema-cha ... 66-70.html
Last edited by Christophe the 10 / 12 / 07, 19: 20, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 08/11/07, 21:31

1) Precision in cases b) and c) when I say "solar preheating" it is rather "wood stamping" that should be read.

2) For space reasons, is it possible to put the expansion tank + mano AFTER the radiator (starting from the boiler)?

I think so, but I prefer to be sure ...

3) I still have a doubt ... because when the boiler circulator starts (the wood boiler is connected like the oil boiler, not shown, at the I / O level on the 4-way valve), there is a flow reversal in the circulation in the solar exchanger. So if it works well in the buffering, it may mess up at the level of the 4-way valve fittings ... and it may send too hot water to the PCs ... but this is what mode that has been used (buffer valve closed obviously) for fuel oil for 15 years ... so it should be fine ... right? Knowledgeable opinions?
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by Christophe » 09/11/07, 12:48

fc89 wrote:Very nice study Christophe!


Uh thank you but it's mostly ... intuition :D

fc89 wrote:I assume the floor has a thermal control valve? and not a simple 4-way.


It is a 4-way motorized ... but the controller is currently out of order (it still seems functional but I put it in "manual" position) because I do not know how to adjust it (it is a PC controller with 3 coef and incomprehensible curves without explanations ...) ... there as there is no more the doc I am a little lost ... I will create a specific subject above as soon as I have taken a photo. .. in any case the brand no longer exists: climatherm

fc89 wrote:At the DEOM level (input output) I will have added a 4-way piloted so as not to lower the interior temperature of the fireplace too much and, if necessary, separate it from the circuit when it is off.


For the separation / isolation of the DEOM I planned the 2 valves (normally open that we see below the 300L buffer tank). In fact they will be mounted as close as possible to the 4-way valve.

For the temperature too low, don't you think it can be managed by solar regulation precisely? In addition, part of the heat is directly looped back.

In fact, as it is a small boiler (15kW) I don't really want to invest in regulation more than that ...

ps: for the continuation if you want to answer well on the other subject like that will be more "clean"
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by jean63 » 09/11/07, 17:47

Christophe, otes_moi of a doubt:

- Your installation 'underfloor heating ", you bought it" with "the house?, In other words it already existed.

If I ask you this question it is because I have a similar installation in my timber frame house.

The differences are:

- Wall-mounted gas boiler ald DEOM stove.
- No power by solar collectors.

The temperature supplied by the boiler is set to the lowest possible (it is always set to the minimum, i.e. 40 to 45 ° C).

For the underfloor heating on the ground floor, I have a hot water outlet which goes into a 100 liter "buffer" tank. From this tank the hot water outlet arrives in a 3-way valve also supplied by the return from the floor. This valve is controlled automatically by a box with clock (and automatic day-night changeover). This box receives the information from 3 sensors: one outside (North to avoid false information given by the sun), 1 "flow to floor" sensor and a "return from floor" sensor.
A curve is programmed to optimize as well as possible the dosage of floor water return to be mixed with the hot water coming from the boiler via the "buffer" tank.

The circulator is located after the 3-way "floor outlet" valve.

If the demand for the floor is at its maximum (very cold or starting because of inertia of the floor), the floor return goes directly into the buffer tank.

And now, for 20 years everything has been going well EXCEPT:

- 10 years ago my regulator was "burned"; request for an estimate = 8000 francs (because everything had to be changed housing + 3-way valve servo-motor). Finally, after having adjusted the 3-way valve "on the spur of the moment" and by hand according to the outside t ° C, I (was able to have my regulator repaired inexpensively (what luck) my control (return to the factory) and since then it has worked well. .... here I am starting to have a problem of tilting day-night but it is mechanical I think (small plastic cleats which have worn out (it will be necessary to dismantle).

- last year, the 3-way valve got stuck: plumber quote 700 euros to dismantle + replace the valve with the risk that it could not connect to the servo motor housing (exact name ??) .......

In summer, I took my larger flat and claw wrenches and I dismantled the 3-way valve after closing all the valves to isolate the boiler and floor.
Inside it was stuffed with rouoille and a kind of muddy paste !!! after having unscrewed the front plate, impossible to take out anything. So I soaked the valve in gasoline (which I had on hand) for a few days until I succeeded in dismantling it, cleaning everything well, removing the rust, adding the grease, closing the smart box ...... and there I said "with the pressure it will leak and oh surprise, after reassembly very nickel (seals well in place) pa a drop of water has not come out and since then it works nickel .

All that to say that if you have electro-nuclear convectors, no worries of this type: broken 2 wires to connect + new convector and off we go .....

In addition, in terms of installation cost, it cost me around 100 francs (with 000 underfloor heating zones on the ground floor and 6 Acova "low temperature" steel radiators.

Knowing that my first Franco-Belgian GTL 1S condensing boiler (the top at the time) died 19 years ago after having tons of shit (too sophisticated like modern cars; electronic box and co. ; HS = 2 francs).

How can a household that wants to install the cheapest possible heating (convectors) go into such installations?

Nothing but my pbs of regulation, if I had not managed to bypass the classic circuit "plumber / we change everything" and we screw the big bill ......

Other than that everything is fine.

By the way the installer had put antifreeze in the circuit for safety at the heated floor level, and it seems that it is corrosive and that would explain the piercing of the heating body of my boiler n ° 1 + the blocking of the 3-way valve .... I don't know, but it proves that the savings made on heating have a counterpart, the cost of maintenance during the aging of the installation.

What I fear in a connection with solar adds risks of additional worries: it is better to be a connoisseur and a handyman ...... : Mrgreen: :!:
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by Christophe » 09/11/07, 18:05

jean63 wrote:Christophe, otes_moi of a doubt:

- Your installation 'underfloor heating ", you bought it" with "the house?, In other words it already existed.


Yes and fortunately! Am not a heating engineer ... here I just add the "lower part of the plan" ie: DEOM + SMALL BUFFER until the connection to the 4-way valve.

Everything else already exists and is functional ...

jean63 wrote:For the underfloor heating on the ground floor, I have a hot water outlet which goes into a 100 liter "buffer" tank. From this tank the hot water outlet arrives in a 3-way valve also supplied by the return from the floor. This valve is controlled automatically by a box with clock (and automatic day-night changeover). This box receives the information from 3 sensors: one outside (North to avoid false information given by the sun), 1 "flow to floor" sensor and a "return from floor" sensor.
A curve is programmed to optimize as well as possible the dosage of floor water return to be mixed with the hot water coming from the boiler via the "buffer" tank.


Uh I do not understand well the interest of this stamp ??
Reduce the inertia of floors?

Could you make a PLAN? Use DIA it's very easy :)

Speaking of inertia ours are damn inertial ... 4 to 6 h so that the room starts to heat (after emptying I specify and therefore removal of sludge)

jean63 wrote:The circulator is located after the 3-way "floor outlet" valve.


Yes like us and it is presented on the plan (but not the regu)

jean63 wrote:If the demand for the floor is at its maximum (very cold or starting because of inertia of the floor), the floor return goes directly into the buffer tank.


I still don't understand the usefulness of this buffer tank ??


jean63 wrote:And now, for 20 years everything has been going well EXCEPT:

- 10 years ago my regulator was "burned"; request for an estimate = 8000 francs (because everything had to be changed housing + 3-way valve servo-motor). Finally, after having adjusted the 3-way valve "on the spur of the moment" and by hand according to the outside t ° C, I (was able to have my regulator repaired inexpensively (what luck) my control (return to the factory) and since then it has worked well. ....


This is what brand your regu is because if it is ours is HS oci (20 years too)


jean63 wrote:there I start to have a problem of tilting night-night but it is mechanical I think (small plastic cleats which have worn out (it will be wrong that I dismantle).


Uh, it looks a lot like ours ... do you have a built-in clock timer?

jean63 wrote:Inside it was stuffed with rust and a sort of muddy paste !!!


Well, that's normal ... if you have 20-year-old PCs made in PER they didn't have an anti-O2 barrier ... so you need to add an anti-O2 product ... you never changed your boiler since ??

I recently made a subject on this subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/plancher-c ... t4215.html

jean63 wrote:In addition, in terms of installation cost, it cost me around 100 francs (with 000 underfloor heating zones on the ground floor and 6 Acova "low temperature" steel radiators.


100 frs from 000 years ago?

How can a household that wants to install the cheapest possible heating (convectors) go into such installations?

Well it's not a question of heating but of real estate speculation currently ... heating which increases not according to speculation (well not too much) becomes even cheaper as a% of the price of the house and land ...

jean63 wrote:By the way the installer had put antifreeze in the circuit for safety at the heated floor level, and it seems that it is corrosive and that would explain the piercing of the heating body of my boiler n ° 1 + the blocking of the 3-way valve ....


No, what pierced your boiler is corrosion ... from O2 in the air ...

jean63 wrote:I don't know, but it proves that the savings made on heating have a counterpart, the cost of maintenance when the installation ages.


Pouted ... the problem is above all the heating engineers who do not know their job ... or tell bullshit to make numbers ... it's lamentable ...

It's still crazy that after 20 years you didn't know that the PCs captured the O2 from the air (it's not you but your heating engineer that I accuse) ... I only needed one visit the local heating engineer and a little discussion to find out ... 2 weeks after moving in ...

jean63 wrote:it is better to be a connoisseur and a handyman ...... : Mrgreen: :!:


Do they call me? : Mrgreen:
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by fc89 » 09/11/07, 18:39

This is Christophe how I see your thing:

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I voluntarily skipped the vase and the security elements.
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by fc89 » 09/11/07, 19:16

Sorry, the 4-way buffer sensor must be connected to the return of the radiators and the underfloor heating.
It will be easier for regulation.
Heating of the domestic hot water tank must remain a priority.

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by Christophe » 09/11/07, 19:26

Thank you for these reflections and plan but some remarks (which you could not know):

a) for solar power it will not be possible: it is a drain system which falls directly back into the large thermal buffer.

b) No "connection" is possible with the heating circuit.

c) the boiler is 100% wood. The oil boiler is located opposite the house ...

d) we only have PCs ... no heaters.

e) the DHW tank is mounted "upside down" if you look closely at my plan ... it's not for nothing :)
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by fc89 » 09/11/07, 19:51

d) we only have PCs ... no heaters.

On your map there is well written radiator

c) the boiler is 100% wood. The oil boiler is located opposite the house ...

My fireplace is also separated from the oil boiler

a) for solar power it will not be possible: it is a drain system which falls directly back into the large thermal buffer.

b) No "connection" is possible with the heating circuit.
e) the DHW tank is mounted "upside down" if you look closely at my plan ... it's not for nothing

The hoses disconnect and reconnect!

A little courage and elbow grease!
I'm kidding, actually I couldn't guess the bursting of your devices.
By cons you risk playing the submariner with all your valves.
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by Christophe » 09/11/07, 19:57

For the radiator yes ... but it is not after the 4-way valve already in place ...

It will be mounted directly on the boiler via a themostatic valve ...

For the submariner it's good I love it :)

http://www.silent-hunteriii.com/uk/home.php : Cheesy:

And I could possibly add 3 or 4 way valves later like on your plan :)
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