anti-renewables heat pump? Disadvantages and advantages

[PITMIX]

Hello
This is exactly the situation of the parents of one of my colleagues.
They will be able to quickly make the CAP profitable thanks to the EJP.
I therefore continue to think that in order to make a heat pump profitable for a boiler, it must be possible to run it during off-peak hours for those who do not have the EJP. In my opinion the only myen is the storage of hot water.
I asked one of my former chief who does air conditioning and heat pump maintenance for individuals in the South East of France.
He says he doesn't travel for less than € 800 a year.
Not counting repairs and parts. So just to clean the filters and the condenser when there is one.
I therefore strongly advise against taking a maintenance contract.
He also says himself that he does interviews only in large villas.

[Colmant]

the advantage of ejp is 24/24 except mobile peak 22 random days / year

if you want to operate during off-peak hours (8 hours a day) you need to install 24 times the power and store the heat, it's not worth it in my opinion

must find a good cap in relieving of air water or water water boiler

[rezut]

Hello

the brand of the pump is ciat (very well known to professionals)
and the 35ht model it seems to me (to be confirmed because I have a doubt I had scanned the doc but since I had my pc stolen at work I no longer have it here so if I think tonight to watch I confirm tomorrow)
when in the region I am in Burgundy in the Saône valley therefore humid climate with frequent fog
for additional info the cap was set to work from 0 ° and this year (setting a month ago I changed so that it works from -5) so I would give you the consumption next year with the new setting)
at the maintenance level I am still waiting for the ciat technician who according to my brother had to offer me a maintenance contract but at the moment I haven't seen anyone (yet he came to start the pump with the brother and since more news)
I have a nephew who works in a box where he installs air conditioning at arm's length so I'm going to ask him to come and take a look and it should cost me an aperitif or at worst a liter of gniole :-))

for jean63 and for info, despite the fact that it was my brother who did the installation, I paid a compulsory normal invoice because it was sent to tax to benefit from the tax credit
and for the consumption it must also be said that we had a rather mild winter compared to the past years

http://www.chaleurterre.com/forum/viewsujet.php?t=4883

[RV45]

Hi,

the EJP tariff is no longer offered but the tempo exists and with a cap the tempo is very advantageous on the subscription as on the electricity tariff.

More than 1000 € in savings in three years, I wanted to return to HC HP I quickly changed my mind by making the comparison

the cop of an air / water boiler relay can be very economical if not for some ecological it is of course questionable . But the cop of a cap on air depends directly on the outside temperature and the humidity rate among others.

If the temperature is 7 ° C the cop is around 3,5 but if the temperature is 12 ° C the cop is much higher and if the temperature is zero the cop is lower.

see the curves in the file below for an example.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... 50-awh.pdf

So in the case of a well-installed succession, the annual cop may approach 4 or even higher if you are in an oceanic climate. and depends on the chosen relief point.

And yes we also heat our home when it is 12 ° C outside and often for more days than for negative temperatures and more when we are removed from the boiler.

For example I invite you to look at this installation in mono energy air / water all at the same time as remarkable:
http://experience-pac.site.voila.fr/

Unfortunately the problem is not the heat pumps (except gas / gas) which have the problem but only the faulty implementation:
- in the installation, installer incompetently unfortunately a good majority so as not to be mean
- in dimensioning, very often oversizing
- in the meteorological location too much air cap in cold regions
...

Personally I recommend in order of priority:

maximum insulation,
use of the sun when possible, at least with good exposure of your home
wood if possible
the cap on the tablecloth when we can,
if not pac on vertical sensor or horizontal defect,
if not cap on air

it's better than 100% electric

to proscribe fuel oil like gas and coal of course.

[Christophe]

Personally I recommend in order of priority:

maximum insulation,
use of the sun when possible, at least with good exposure of your home
wood if possible
the cap on the tablecloth when we can,
if not pac on vertical sensor or horizontal defect,
if not cap on air

Totally agree for the order!
Here we have already "passed" the first 3 "levels", shit it's late I have to go reload the Deom

ps: excellent site http://experience-pac.site.voila.fr/ do you know with what gear they made their "long-term" temperature reading?

[RV45]

Of course I know, it's all in the Chaleur Terre installation presentation

http://www.chaleurterre.com/forum/viewsujet.php?t=184

One of the solutions in the area is 1 Wire.

Good on the other hand I do not know I confess "the Deom".

[fc89]

Hello,

As promised, the consumption of the air-water heat pump with hot water production occupancy of the house for 1 person, north of Burgundy 130 km south of Paris.
Details of the house: Age 45 years, hollow red brick walls 20cm + air space + red brick 5cm + plaster-polystyrene 4 + 1.
EDF "Tempo" contract
Indoor temperature 20 °

Pump consumption at the end of November 1800 Kwh
Oil consumption 0 L
A+

[julier]

B) If your electricity is produced from coal or oil, the overall performance will be worse CO2 with a light fuel oil boiler efficiency of thermal power plants, transmission losses and COP of your CAP.

-> Surely not ecological

C) If your electricity is nuclear, you certainly decrease your energy bill (but pay your taxes in nuclear anyway) but you fund maintained and the revival of the French nuclear fleet.

-> ecological?

The CO2 yield is positive in a specific case:
1) excellent quality heat pump (high efficiency)
2) external environment not too cold (otherwise the efficiency drops sharply, it's intrinsic there is nothing we can do)
3) electricity produced by a combined cycle gas power plant (a gas turbine therefore heat losses are used to operate a steam engine)

The (1) is possible while paying attention.
The (2) can be tricky in some regions except by installing a buried circuit, pompously called "geothermal" for some time.
The (3) is almost impossible in France, because EDF chose nuclear. There is a combined cycle gas power plant near Dunkirk, and another is planned (and disputed by residents) near Beaucaire in the Vaucluse.

Besides, all is not won, at least for 2 reasons:
- most heat pumps use fluids which, failing to destroy the ozone layer, cause at least a powerful greenhouse effect. Choose the ones that cause the least greenhouse effect. This is important because with the flexible hoses, there are leaks which make it necessary to top up with fluid fairly regularly.
- if you consume electricity just on cold days, the most likely is that it will come from old power plants (oil or coal, in France) returned to service for the occasion.
- the CO2 gain is anyway very low compared to a high-end gas boiler (condensing, ideally).

[jean63]

- most heat pumps use fluids which, failing to destroy the ozone layer, cause at least a powerful greenhouse effect. Choose the ones that cause the least greenhouse effect. This is important because with flexible hoses, there are leaks which make it necessary to top up with fluid fairly regularly.

Leaks !!!! but it's amazing! why flexible hoses? and not copper for example (cost problem?).

- the CO2 gain is anyway very low compared to a high-end gas boiler (condensing, ideally).

It reassures me because I have a recent wall-mounted gas boiler (3 years) with wall outlet which turns at low temperature for the heated floor and a little warmer for the DHW.

So, I must supplement with solar to reduce my consumption of gas. In absolute terms it is the most ecological. And if that is not enough: add a small wood boiler (pellets) or a DEOM.

[PITMIX]

On a well made installation there are no leaks requiring periodic recharging of the circuit. And whoever reloads an installation saying this is a crook. He does not want to piss off looking for the escape because it becomes more and more difficult.

What do you call hoses?

Even Aeroquip type hoses do not leak



the anaconda type antivibration hoses are also very waterproof.



It is true that the more it goes the smaller the molecules of the new fluids and the more there is a risk of leakage on poorly screwed fittings or poorly made soldering. Care must be taken not to overheat a valve, or the like, during soldering so as not to destroy the Teflon seals and other mechanisms.
Now you should know that no material is 100% waterproof.
There is always a micro poreusitée but in no case this poreusitée is important to the point of having to make a complement of refrigerant.

In the event of a leak, you should know that the best detectors are capable of detecting leaks of the order of 2 grams per year.
Once you have passed all the connections to the leak detector it is possible to put a little water with soap on the connections to be very sure not to miss a leak.
Another very easy to see sign is the trace of fat.
If a tube becomes greasy at the level of a screw connection or even of a solder it is that it leaks.
But I repeat it again if a refrigerationist puts fluid in your heat pump by saying that it is normal because the tubes flexiblent always lose a little it is FALSE.
Then it's up to you.
Either he correctly searches for the leak and repairs it. He spends hours there and it costs you the head.
Either you make a small recharge of 1 or 2kg per year and you increase the greenhouse effect and it still costs you wheat.