CIAT CAP Caléo 60H LOUD

[Christophe]

I'm going to say a banality that will not help you but pay € 20 for aerothermal heat pump (air - X) it really, really hurts me (for you !!). 20 is the price of a soil water heat pump, earthworks included !!!

If you had known this forum in 2008, surely you would have chosen another solution ...


Rename your video on youtube and take care of the keywords, it is necessary that such energy scams exist!

An air X heat pump for a house, all inclusive it should not exceed 5 to 6000 € !!

Briodepot (or Bricoman) sells an air-water heat pump for 2000 € !!!

[Christophe]

ps: the noise on the video, it's clearly anything, is there an HS roll or a dead pigeon in a ventillo?

On the video, your cap seems very close to the wall ... does the pose meet the specifications?

Need a minimum distance from the blowers !!! I guess the walls also echo !!

[JLB29P]

THANK YOU for your intervention.
indeed, the layout of the cap is not ideal, it respects the minimum distances, but the walls reflect the noise BUT do not CAUSE it!
No pigeon, here is the gulls ...

Since the company that performs the maintenance (annual tightness check) has been careful to add self-adhesive foam on everything that touches or approaches the plastic carcass, the noise is seriously more bearable, but c It's not low temperature (below + 6 ° C in general) that the vibrations are hellish.
A + with a new episode of our tribulations.

[JLB29P]

but paying 20 € for aerothermal heat pump (air - X) it really, really hurts me (for you !!).

I am not convinced that I paid too much for a WORKING installation (there was the complete installation of central heating with CIAT water heater on 2 levels + the connection of the underfloor heating that I had calculated and installed (thank you, that at least it works well))
With a professional, we have advice, know-how, a guarantee (when it is serious). (and tax reduction)
I was professional in another field, and I sometimes made a mistake and that the site costs me more than it brought in.

On the other hand, I bought equipment and materials from Bricoxxx and I will not buy such sophisticated products there.
Examples:
- short circuit between wires in a pre-wired ring (now tests continuity and insulation before unwinding ...
- flexible water inlet hose which bursts for no apparent reason at night!
- circulator which oxidizes in 2 years to the point of being unusable!
- more serious: circuit breakers which trip (fortunately) but are then destroyed! Practice on a board with bus.

That said, I heard two professionals chatting while waiting at a wholesaler:
- "I have more and more customers asking for solar"
- "you send them back to another?"
- "no, they want some so I ask them, but I will have to follow a training because I do not understand anything !!!"

[JLB29P]

JLB29P
after cleaning the circuits by a professional (not the one who carried out the installation), he concludes that the "scales" are due to the oxidation of the inside of the coils of the CIAT SANI 300L water heater (which are supposed to be stainless steel), by the water circulating between the water heater and the heat exchanger.
A CIAT technician on the phone answers that it is impossible, the coils being made of stainless steel and unable to fall apart like this.
I agree in principle, but then where could these "scales" come from, of an indeterminate matter, fragile enough to disintegrate just by touching it, but compact enough to block the filter and sufficiently ferrous to be attracted to a magnet?

After this intensive cleaning, the filter is quickly plugged in with new deposits as soon as I try to put the heat pump back in heating mode.
This check at least ensured that the magnesium anodes were in good condition, and the interior of the tank as well.

If anyone has an idea ... I'm interested.

[Obamot]

1) How long was your PAC guaranteed?
2) How much is it supposed to consume electric current?
3) How much does she actually consume?
4) Has there been a change in electricity consumption over time ...?

For the first question: if it is still under warranty, you should be able to resolve this. There is a legal clause called "warranty for defects", Which means that if it is a design error, the warranty never ends. This is all the more in your favor before the courts, if your first complaints date back to a defect that occurred DURING the warranty period (but this is not compulsory).

Because there obviously, I do not see how one could accept such a difference of 3x the contractual sound level! (The noise level doubles every 3 dB).

Another track: if the electric consumption has increased, it is because the pump produces more effort, so it consumes more ... (but I am not a PAC specialist, far from it).

(Small note by the way, I note that a drilling at medium depth, to store thermal solar in the ground, would have cost 2x cheaper than a PAC which does not give satisfaction and it is completely silent and in principle without consumption energetic or very low ... But it's a techno that deserves to be fully validated, a bit of the music of the future since still in the process of validation and in Europe, it is not very developed unfortunately. So no regrets.)

[JLB29P]

"Obamot" 1) How long was your PAC guaranteed?
2) How much is it supposed to consume electric current?
3) How much does she actually consume?
4) Has there been a change in electricity consumption over time ...?

Thank you Obamot,
1) 2 year manufacturer's warranty, we are in the 3rd year, and I was supposed to have the cleaning done after 2 years of use, so I am wrong in principle, even if I had asked the installer to do so on condition that he does something else that he did not want to do.
2) what it is supposed to consume depends on too many parameters for me to answer. What the sellers advertise is always underestimated.
3 and 4) is actual consumption normal and increasing?, Difficult to determine because it depends on the use in DHW and in heating and therefore also in outdoor, indoor and setpoint temperatures. I can only compare the overall consumption of the CAP over two full years 8715kW in 2009 and 8971kW in 2010 (peak hours and off-peak hours added) which is not significant.

design error: if yes, other users should have the same problems!
On the other hand, there was indeed an error during the installation, on the noise side, I think it is linked, but the 2 "experts" who came (in hot weather) at the request of my legal assistance provided reports. negative, dismissing the reason on the site.
For the scales, I don't understand.

store thermal solar in the ground: it is a good idea, but very difficult to implement without a preliminary study of the ground (here, sand and granite) when there is a water table with a current even very weak, the heat is dissipated and dispersed.
I know a heating plumber who works on geothermal installations that become ineffective because they freeze!

[Obamot]

1) How long was your PAC guaranteed?

Thank you Obamot,
1) 2 year manufacturer's warranty, we are in the 3rd year, and I was supposed to have the cleaning done after 2 years of use, I am therefore in error a priori, even if I had asked the installer to do it provided that he did something else that he did not want to do.

- Don't understand, the third year is well after the second, no?

So it's "after 2 years"or before the end of the 2 years ... Moreover, if it is after two years without further specification, where is the fault?

- I also don't see how a "cleaning" postponed in time could constitute "a wrong" ... Who can know if your PAC has not been put out of service for a certain time, because of very favorable weather like this year!
It seems to me that these prescriptions are indicative durations for a “non-stop” use. So legally it is defensible!

Then, if you have legal assistance, why didn't she tell you about this provision of "warranty for defects"? You should do it again, no ...

2) what it is supposed to consume depends on too many parameters for me to answer. What the sellers advertise is always underestimated. 3 and 4) is actual consumption normal and increasing?, Difficult to determine because it depends on the use in DHW and in heating and therefore also in outdoor, indoor and setpoint temperatures. I can only compare the overall consumption of the CAP over two full years 8715kW in 2009 and 8971kW in 2010 (peak hours and off-peak hours added) which is not significant.

Ok there are small individual counters, which measure that, there must be one in the fo-fo shop, ask Chrsitophe ...

store thermal solar in the ground: it is a good idea, but very difficult to implement without a preliminary study of the ground (here, sand and granite) when there is a water table with a current even very weak, the heat is dissipated and dispersed.
I know a heating plumber who works on geothermal installations that become ineffective because they freeze!

- It cannot frost amha, if the pipe is insulated to the depth "frost-free" ... (- 2m).
- The frost comes from a "relaxation" in a circuit right? However, if we drill, it is to do without PAC. So I don't see how it could happen ;-)
So it would interest me to have the coordinates of this gentleman, to see what he thinks. Always interesting to have the opinion of someone who has touched the subject.

- Then the more we go down, the hotter it is => at -20m it is 12 ° C constant all year round, then we gain 1 ° C every 30m (at -300m it is a constant temperature of (~) + 21,5 ° C)
- A borehole is not to make "geothermal energy" which will exhaust a thermal deposit. Here the goal is to "charge" with heat from thermal solar panels, so we increase the temperature in the basement ... And obviously efficiency.

[dedeleco]

For magnetic scales, therefore iron, a pipe element is destroyed quickly and one day will break through and then you will know the cause and the location with the leak !!!

The water heater coils may not be made of stainless steel or very poor quality stainless steel, a typical Chinese scam without the CIAT supplier realizing it !!!
There have been worse Chinese, on food, drugs and toxic canapes !!!

We need to find more of these scales in the water heater!
We can only operate this water heater in summer without anything else and see if the scales continue? to test.
By unplugging it and passing a flexible wire through the pipes of the water heater we must collect lots of scales in the process of disintegrating.

The pipes coming out, we must be able to see their quality.
Unless a product added to the circulating water is incompatible with stainless steel which does not resist everything?

There are all kinds of quality stainless steel !!
I noticed that many common stainless steel (table knives for example) rust in the water, especially if salted.
The supplier is responsible and you should have sued from the start before the end of the 2 years !!
The guarantee is ten-year if the quality makes use impossible and even eternal if unfit for use, hidden defect, scam or serious damage. See the civil code.

If not :

geothermal systems that become ineffective because they freeze!

because the well is very often undersized (very usual because very expensive to dig on thousands of m3) and therefore the heat sink cools it so much that the T of the well drops below zero, even in Brest where however it does not freeze not often (fig trees, palm trees near the sea !!) !!!

We are talking about a remarkable new Canadian solution completely unknown in France to copy without PAC !!!
We keep the summer solar heat (very strong and always wasted) underground to use it in winter as in (52 functional apartments):
www.dlsc.ca
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... mrk29Z.pdf
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post203921.html#203921

The usual geothermal energy with PAC with the term "geothermal energy" is a pure scam, because we do not use the geological heat coming from the depths of the earth (gradient of 1 ° C by about 33m very low) but in fact the solar heat coming from of the surface averaged over one year at a depth of 3m (much stronger gradient of 10 ° C over 3m, or more than 100 times high after a year at a depth of 3m) !!

So the PACs with shallow wells are not at all geothermal but solar.
A simple proof is that in Siberia with the ground frozen deep (annual average below 0 ° C), they cannot walk !!

These Pacs must extract heat from the earth (solar heat stored spontaneously in the earth over a year by thermal diffusion) in very large quantities by only cooling this earth by 5 ° C (from 10 ° C to 5 ° C without freezing ) and therefore by calculating the thermal capacities of the earth, it takes thousands of m3 (see sue econology my posts with simple calculation).
Since we can only cool the earth a little 5 ° C (if we cool the double by 10 ° C by freezing, we can remove the double heat for the same volume) we need a very large volume !!

If we preheat the earth in summer with solar heat on solar collectors (80 ° C in summer), as in www.dlsc.ca, at 40 ° C or even 60 ° C, we can store much more heat in the same volume of soil, in the temperature report, such as 40 ° C-20 ° C = 20 ° C or 60 ° C-20 ° C = 40 ° C on the 5 ° C, ie 4 to 8 times more than with PAC which cools the earth by 5 ° C max.

So with this system, a true Canadian well, it will take 4 to 8 times less soil in the Canadian well than for a usual heat pump on this well, wrongly called geothermal energy !!

So this system well designed and implemented, as in Canada should be realized in France much cooler than in Canada at 1000m altitude!

So, in perpetuity, more heat pumps with failures and short lifespan, more CO2, more nuclear, or oil or gas, to heat, than the summer sun which heats the winter !!

The perfect renewable, totally ignored by SarKozy, capable of replacing all the nuclear power plants that are currently used to heat !!
.

[JLB29P]

"- Then the further down we go, the hotter it is ..."

These are most likely to be poorly studied facilities. The principle remains valid, but a circuit of too cold air circulating in buried pipes causes a deposit of frost if the temperature of the basement is not high enough. In addition, if I remember correctly what had been explained to me, the pipes were drowned in a sandy and dry ground therefore relatively insulating, which makes that the thermal conductivity was low, which did not prevent the little water surrounding the pipes will freeze and form a block difficult to thaw.

"The supplier is responsible and you should have sued from the start before the end of the 2 years !! ..."

indeed, my insurance was not up to par by dragging, and the unfavorable conclusions of the 2 "experts" did not encourage me to take legal action (about the noise).
For scales, this was noted during rinsing 1 month ago and the plumber must give me a written report of his findings.