Multistage Pump Guinard: leak on the deck ...

[Christophe]

It is 3 days that I fight with a damn circulating pump that has a leak in the coupling pump body - motor ... then at random knowing that there is a lot of good trick on these forums I jump into the water.

It is a pump that is roughly 20 years old and had to turn a bit empty but the turbines seem ok. It soints when filled with water and fled squarely like a small faucet when it exceeds 0.4 pressure bars.

The seal between the body and the engine seems ok but after various tests it seems indeed that it is him that poses problem.

BIG PROBLEM: This pump model is no longer manufactured and it is almost impossible to find the original seals (a large o-ring in this case). Would kk1 have:

1) A good do-it-yourself address? (for delnoram)
2) Another tip to repair this pump put ***?

Here is which "recent" model the pump housing looks the most (but it is not exactly that)



These are Guinard Pumps

ps: in the meantime I tried my luck with dough seal (the blue thing hyper chemical) but I have great doubt about the effectiveness of this solution ... (the pump goes up to 1.2 bars) .. .

[Other]

Hello
you will not get out if you do not put another seal (belloseal)

Normally these seals have a ceramic washer a carbon washer embedded in rubber that is tightly mounted on the motor shaft, the pump companies do not manufacture these belloseal, he buys them, they are made in standards, much like ball bearings, SKF or Timken bearing distributor sellers often sells a whole assortment of motor seal and pump beloseal, with the dimensions you can get one, you are lucky that it has lasted so long
A pump that depresses (turns a little dry = Kaput the seal)

Andre

[zac]

(a big o-ring in this case).

look for a MECHANIC, not a parts editor.

he should have a kit to make his O-ring.

if you can't find it, the kit (at virax I think but I'm not sure) is worth 60 €; you have all the sizes of "thread", the trick to cut straight and the glue to close the joint. Be careful there are 2 kits one in metric and one in voodoo; take your odds well before.

there, you know everything

@+

[ThierrySan]

A priori, by the photo, your coupling between the motor and the pump is done by the plastic handle. Check if the seal holder for receiving the plastic side pump is not deformed, or if the pump body is not so deformed ...

If your O-ring groove and crush side are not deformed then it must come from your joint. Check, even if it does not appear, if the O-ring is still round. It's imperative. Maybe with time (20 years of continuous compression), it has distorted to become oval and thus no longer plays its role ... Especially since the rubber may have also become poreu.
Check the ribs with a vernier caliper!

Here are some suppliers:
http://www.stacem.com/
http://www.eriks.be/Joints_toriques__ca ... 226.0.html
http://www.lejointtechnique.com/joints-techniques.asp
http://212.234.198.181/oring/francais/indexf.htm (The French Joint)
http://www.omnijoints.com/toriques.html

With that, it should go! No?!
If you are not sure of the deformations of your surfaces, try a slightly thicker O-ring. Otherwise, you always have the possibility to double your seal with a rubber or paper surface seal, made to cut by yourself ... It is possible to buy plates of material to cut them!

[I Citro]

It goes back more than 10 years, I was responsible for a pump repair workshop at KSB, the brand that absorbed Guinard ...
I think like André that it is rather the mechanical seal that has failed (what André calls "Belloseal")
The repair of "general public" pumps has been entrusted to a network of independent authorized repairers.
On Bordeaux, this is the company ABCD if I have good memory ... Who sells spare parts or repairs equipment ...
However, pumps are a profession ... and if the turbines or the bodies are worn, the repair is not always a good choice ...
Move closer to a specialist in your area and engage in conversation ...

[Christophe]

Thank you for these very sensible tips (and for the links to the seal providers that should help visitors afterwards) and that's what I thought, so I think buy a new one.

What do you think about Casto models above (especially this model).

Knowing that the pump is mounted on a solar circuit (draining) say up to 20 30 times per day in summer cycle 5 10 minutes (pure hypothesis because I have not yet attacked the regulation but of after my different tests this must be in these surroundings).

It will thus undergo frequent starting and mounted pressure (1.2 bar max after the mano mounted on the defective pump) that could be a source of premature wear

However, it will not run very irregularly during the winter period (some days 2 or 3 times, some weeks without any start, in case of snow for example ...).

Under these conditions what life can I expect from a guinard pump ("entry level")

ps: I heard about KSB I did not know that guinard belonged to them (and to say that the specialists that I went to see did not seem to know it ...)

[I Citro]

Ah! it is to "fill" a solar thermal collector!
I thought for this application we used a heating circulator?
Besides, I'm not sure that a multicell pump supports high temperatures?
Finally, it seems to me that the flow and the pressure are very important for a solar application ... unless you have a very important elevation ...
I remember that it takes 1bar pressure to raise water to 10 meters so the pump that you present us can feed 1,2 bar a sensor placed 32 meters higher. We speak of HMT (Total Manometric Height).

The more I think about it, the more I think it is necessary to move towards a heating circulator ... it consumes less (250 watt on average), supports hot and continuous operation 24h / 24 ...

KSB bought Guinard 1986, it's not yesterday. This multinational has absorbed many companies to become a leader in its field. a small preview here.

[ThierrySan]

I do not understand your application:

Christophe wrote:

Knowing that the pump is mounted on a solar circuit (draining) say up to 20 30 times per day in summer cycle 5 10 minutes (pure hypothesis because I have not yet attacked the regulation but of after my different tests this must be in these surroundings).

What bothers me is that you would mean by "solar circuit drain" ...
Because if it's only to circulate the fluid in the solar circuit, then, Citro gives you the right method to use. You will not need pressure (or very little, of the order of 1 to 2 bars), but only to circulate your fluid in the circuit.

By cons, the pressure of your circuit, closed, is no longer in relation with the fluid discharge height, since it remains in the same circuit, heating another circuit by a heat exchanger ...
You only have to look at the flow of circulation (in direct relation of course with the capacity of your fluid to heat and redistribute the heat) for a pressure of use greater than the overall losses of loads.
To put pressure on your fluid initially, you can use a pump that will allow you to reach about 2 bars (I think it will be enough).

However, if your water circuit, you want it openyou will have to take into account the suction and discharge heights of your fluid, as well as the pressure drops. There, it is clear that it will size your pump accordingly: it will necessarily be bigger ...

To validate what I advance, I found that it really drinkable:
http://www.thermexcel.com/french/ressou ... lateur.htm

[bolt]

What do you think about Casto models above (especially this model).

the ads for pumps of this kind have the annoying habit of expressing what the pump can do to the maximum, but separately , so watch out:
according to your link we must understand 4 m3 / h at 4,4 bar

but in reality, it may be 4 m3 / h at 0 bar
and 4,4 bar with zero flow

to have a pump of this type with 4 m3 / h at 4,4 bar, in the trade you need between 1100 and 1500 watts, so either your Guinard pump is a Rolls (especially since it's a self-priming, which is good often at the expense of yield), or you roll yourself

(to be confirmed with the flow / pressure curve manufacturer)

but hey, for your application it must work

the dead joint of your pump was called in time: gland, real on the old pumps: graphite braid crushed by a nut to be tightened as and when it wears
now it is a "mechanical seal": graphite washer supported by a spring on a ceramic washer, same type as for the water pump on car engine

if it is disassemble well, just find the right parts, and the pump is like new
(instead of polluting the dump with the old pump, whose engine is not even grilled )

bolt

[I Citro]

Well done bolt!
Super your link ThierrySan, we even talk about cavitation is also a phenomenon of dissociation of the water molecule!

I come back to the heating circulator that normally operates at a fixed rate but that is often associated with a motorized 3 channel valve when it is necessary to regulate ...
We therefore come back to a traditional heating system, except that the generator is a solar panel instead of a boiler ... all the gear is therefore "standard" It is necessary "only" to adjust a few parameters ...