Diesel fuel: tankers overcharge their margin

[georges100]

the € has never increased, it's the dollar that breaks its mouth ....

[bham]

I think you forget a basic parameter in your estimates based on ... forestry figures for heating I guess?

Indeed; in firewood we do not use the sections less than 10 or 15 cm in diameter (and again I am nice with 10 cm in the lower limit).

So the potential is much greater with pellets ... I think we can easily double the annual growth potential compared to the figures in steres.

I am wrong?

Well, everything depends on the wood you make in the forest; At my place, we can only make the crowns or tops of large trees, the trunk being reserved for the making of stereas of commune and for sale by the ONF. It can also happen that we make wood with small trees in order to thin a plot.
So in both cases, I happen to take branches whose diameter is 2 / 4cm mini, which allows to make a small outbreak in the off-season or to start a fire. The rest is left in a heap or burnt.
But I have already been tempted to invest in a shredder to recycle all that remains; on the other hand, you have to leave a little decaying plant matter to balance the forest.

[Christophe]

You yes (I also burn small woods) because you make your own wood but it has no market value.

And I guess this "potential" is therefore not included in the official figures.

In this doc there are very interesting figures on wood energy:
https://www.econologie.com/la-filliere-b ... -3742.html

These are the Belgian figures but that should not change much in France except the surface obviously ...

Here is what is particularly interesting in our current discussion (p13) on 100m3 of standing timber, there remains 2 to 18m3 of "final" product.

Which means 98 to 72% by volume of waste in the wood fill including 60% loss during slaughter !!!

[bham]

The least prudence would like us to look for alternatives. Finally no, that we find them !!!

So yes, I find that just asking that the government lower oil taxes is not consistent with the issues ... But then not at all !!! It's a bit like asking people to put out the cigarettes because the Maine-Montparnasse tower is burning !!!

Totally agree with you BUT it should not be forgotten that we citizens are held hostage by a complex system to which our leaders are part, at the orders of the lobbies and the WTO.
The rise in the price of a barrel was predictable, everyone knew it, but nothing was planned to anticipate it.
So today what should we do?
It is true that demanding lower taxes is not consistent with the issues but it is still our leaders, the lobbies and the WTO that put us in shit.
The problem is that you and I reason as an environmentally conscious citizen and as such wish to see the emergence of more environmentally friendly alternative solutions.
While our leaders, very often manipulated, see only the side "loss of earnings" for them and their accomplices; in order for them to leave the field open to alternative solutions, they must bring as much profit to their lobbies and to themselves, otherwise, it's not interesting.
As I repeat, an increase in the price of a barrel benefits the oil companies by allowing prospecting and exploitation of wells that were previously unprofitable or not exploitable (too deep, in the Arctic, etc.), it also benefits the States.

I do not ask for better to change fuel, to heat myself differently, but what exactly is there? substitutes such as LPG or "biofuel" which only postpone the deadline. You see, Peugeot is embarking on the design of small gasoline engines.
So where is evolution?
In terms of housing, it is planned for 2020 to make new houses with positive energy, therefore houses which will produce the energy they need. 2020 is 12 years away and I can hardly believe that we will get there.

So simple hypothesis: imagine that oil is classified as a humanitarian good, that its speculation is prohibited, what would happen?
No more prospecting and exploitation of unprofitable wells, no more tax resources; States would be very obliged to find something else, to tax nuclear, hydrogen, air, water, etc., but at least we would be done with the energy supplying greenhouse gases.
So for me the increase in oil prices is not inevitable, it is not a necessity for the planet, it is just for those who lead us and those who do not know what to do with their money. It is high time to stop believing everything we are told, "for our good".
Here I have a moved thought for our national PPDA which relayed the good word for years and which made the error of displeasing the King.

[Did67]

So today what should we do?

Do not just call for lower fuel taxes as a “back down to better jump” solution

Those who can, insulate their house ...

Those who can, change their fuel oil boiler for renewable energy ...

Those who can, at least partially change the mode of transport ... for example stop driving one in a car (a good second-hand car + a scoot does not cost more than the latest model from here ... .)

So do not hide behind: lobbies, governments, politicians, Sarkozy (for the French) or the King of the Belgians (for the Belgians) who are only plucking us ... So I do nothing while waiting for they take the right measures ... Because there, to bite your tail, it is reasoning that bit your tail: a) they are all idiots - or profiteers or rotten or at the mercy of lobbies etc - ; b) they have only to take intelligent measures ... I apologize, but ask of idiots to take intelligent measures ??? I prefer to take them myself!

[Christophe]

So here it joins my previous nervousness: must have the courage to invest TODAY in NON petroleum.

[Did67]

[So simple hypothesis: imagine that oil is classified as a humanitarian good, that its speculation is prohibited, what would happen?

As with any ban: the mafia will take care of it, price multiplied by 5 or 10, black market, and everything in the pockets of some criminals - historical reference: prohibition of alcohol in the USA; current reference: cocaine

Unfavorable hypothesis, of course. Maybe not the one you were thinking about.

Naive hypothesis: in the best of all possible worlds, there is no longer any speculation; prices stabilize around those determined by the law of supply and demand (how much today - 50 euros?); car manufacturers see their stock prices soar; many more cars (especially in China and India), imbalance in the markets, prices tightening, stocks running out and in 3 years (or 5 years?) we will have exactly what we are experiencing at the moment . Our generation will have gained 3 or 5 years of "happiness" irrigated with fuel, our children (if not us) will still have a critical situation because in the meantime no alternative will have been seriously developed because it is unprofitable ... And today's grumblers will always growl and yell at ... the governments in the hands of lobbies who have done nothing !!! Well...

Without wanting to be too pessimistic - but I am a bit so all the same: given that collectively men are characterized above all by their cretinism, all the generous systems which have claimed to make the happiness of the man by a "pooling" have badly turned ... Historically, there are all the variants of communism, post-sixty-eight communities, mutuals (do you still see a difference between banks or mutual insurance companies and others?), cooperatives ... You can believe it will work for oil. Let me doubt it very deeply! And act solo ... And invite as many people as possible to do the same ... Solutions, there are plenty of them on this site ... No one solves everything ... But everyone can already start with a little bit .. Of course, the grumblers will give a damn. The yaka will overwhelm them with criticism ... But in life, you also have to know how to "walk alone" rather than "bleat in a troop" ...

[bham]

So today what should we do?

Do not just call for lower fuel taxes as a “back down to better jump” solution

Those who can, insulate their house ...

Those who can, change their fuel oil boiler for renewable energy ...

Those who can, at least partially change the mode of transport ... for example stop driving one in a car (a good second-hand car + a scoot does not cost more than the latest model from here ... .)

So do not hide behind: lobbies, governments, politicians, Sarkozy (for the French) or the King of the Belgians (for the Belgians) who are only plucking us ... So I do nothing while waiting for they take the right measures ... Because there, to bite your tail, it is reasoning that bit your tail: a) they are all idiots - or profiteers or rotten or at the mercy of lobbies etc - ; b) they have only to take intelligent measures ... I apologize, but ask of idiots to take intelligent measures ??? I prefer to take them myself!

Did you agree, but without all of the cons of the last section, we would no doubt be at a more advanced stage in terms of renewable energy.
I too get involved, I isolate, I heat myself in the woods, we have a vegetable patch, we live in an old house that we are renovating, which means that we have no credits on our backs, so no need two salaries, no need for two cars.
But that is not enough, because not everyone owns their accommodation, because we are financially dependent on the budgetary policy of a country, which manages its public buildings as it can, and often poorly in terms of energy requirements.
And so despite all the efforts that we can make, except to live in complete autarky, we remain dependent econologically speaking, on all these idiots.
And then I would like to have a more environmentally friendly heating and more affordable than a heat pump to relieve myself of the chore of wood; but for the moment nothing exists, nothing is developing.
And then I would ask no better than having an electric car: do you know what it's worth economically speaking?
And then I would like to offer a more promising future to my children; but I can't promise them anything.

So I'm not hiding behind scapegoats easy to designate to do nothing, I just note that we are hostages of an economic system that wants to stay juicy as long as possible for some privileged people. And that applauding an increase in taxes amounts to going in the same direction as these people there, except that these do not see the same objective as you; it is therefore also to take a stick to better autoflagellate.

[Did67]

Did you agree, but without all of the cons of the last section, we would no doubt be at a more advanced stage in terms of renewable energy.


So I'm not hiding behind scapegoats who are easy to designate to do nothing,.

Delighted to see that we are much more in agreement than your message made me react !!! Sincerely delighted.

I invite you all the same to pay attention to the impact of "rants against idiots" - perhaps necessary - but which can therefore be perceived by readers of forums as I perceived them ... Take up the succession of messages around the price of oil: a naive reader could sincerely think that apart from asking for a reduction in taxes, there is nothing to be done.

Still delighted that "you're not hiding". But how many millions of French people are in hiding (I'm not talking about the necessities - but about the few thousand households who pay € 1 in income tax or more - or who should pay them if they didn't use tricks) ? They will be delighted to have arguments!

Small nuance: I did not applaud an increase in taxes, I said that lowering taxes was not a solution, that it was ultimately a bad idea because it was counterproductive (even if it is very commonly accepted - "It is not because there are many that they are right").

[Christine]

This exchange is very interesting and it is even more interesting to see that it is almost a true copy of an exchange that we had this morning elsewhere in the forum. I allow myself to copy short extracts here:

WHAT'S THE POINT ???


Do all these people who demonstrate against the rise in fuel prices and against the decline in purchasing power imagine that someone (the president? The European Union? GOD?) Has a magic wand and ABRACADARA will they provide them with cars, almost free food, gas galore, etc.?

Are they so stupid that they do not yet understand that we have lived beyond our means too long, that our model of development is a heresy, that developing countries are not vague abstractions for which we give 10 balls at Christmas or during Ramadan?

Are they so submissive that they imagine that the "big boys" (the president, the union ...) are the only ones capable of providing them with a quality of life, like modern deer waiting for their lord to feed them?

Are they so foolish that they do not imagine we can change the kid's smack-rice-soufflé-kinder-machin by a slice of bread and cheese, more balanced, less polluting and CHEAPER?

Let them take charge of themselves, name of god. To be creative, to imagine a life a little less sad comsomlator and more human.

And not to manifest for infinite essence like Panurge's bulletholes.

So how do we do ? Question Cheesy Grin exclamation

[...] I have absolutely no answer to your question which is THE question.

So in the meantime, let's do it like tigger, let's start by doing the best ourselves, with what we have and too bad if it's not perfect: it's never too late to improve.

Basically, all the speakers agree and finally, we all end up admitting that we are all "groping" in our corner but that we lack arguments, if only to raise awareness among those around us - so talk about a Great Evening of Ecology ...

Perhaps we should get down to the task of preparing simple, effective and convincing arguments for the family of which Did67 speaks, who is just getting by financially and who cannot afford to turn around quickly. .. let's say increase in the cost of living?