How to keep water pipes frost-free?

[mutanet]

Hello everyone.

Operating an equestrian center, I am confronted each year with frost on the existing pipes (freezing of -3 to 15 ° C depending on the season). The main water inlet is contained in a hole +/- 50 cm high on a 70x70cm square. As this hole is not isolated, the main water inlet tap freezes every night. I tried the "glass wool" insulation but it takes moisture and quickly becomes ineffective. The old blankets are not used much either ... Considering the risk of fire with the fodder, I removed the heating wire solution.

The second problem is the cafeteria which is far from the supply point. A pipe buried at 80 cm had been installed to bring water to the latter. the frost pipe also at the exit from the main arrival point and at the entrance to the cafeteria as well as in the freezing walls beyond -8 °.

The only current solution: We inject air with a compressor every night to empty the installations, which eliminates the risk of leakage due to frost at night.

Watering horses is also problematic during the winter period.

We are looking for solutions and if anyone has experience with this type of problem, it would be welcome ...

Thanks in advance.
JM

[dirk pitt]

if the heating wire is excluded, the solution remains open (partially)
I even had in a drawer a device on this principle which mounts on a pipe. it is actually a thermostatic valve that opens more or less depending on the negative temperatures.
above 2 or 3 ° it is closed, below it opens more or less.
it seems that for -2 or -3, a simple drip a little big is enough to protect.
to tell the truth, i never checked.
it's at leroy merlin HERE

[bernardd]

So simple!

Thank you for this solution.

So it would be enough to fill a large tank of type 1m3 or more during the night, then to use it during the day, so as not to have a loss?

Otherwise, for glass wool insulation, put it in closed trash bags to avoid taking moisture too quickly?

Otherwise there is simply natural wool. It does not burn and it keeps the heat even when wet, memories of a dinghy in Auvergne and in winter :-)

[Christophe]

Under fear of being burnt down and being treated as a waster, I dared not propose the solution of the open tap ... glad that someone else did it for me! I did not know that there were anti freeze valves ... (on the other hand the price is hallucinamentally expensive! What's in it? A rare metal or what?)

But I remain skeptical that a drip is enough ... who wants to test?

Is insulating the pipe really useful? It allows to increase, a little inertia, maybe to gain a few ° .h but in case of strong negative T ° it will not protect enough ...

ps: beast question, what happens if the outlet of the valves freezes?

[Macro]

It is necessary to feed the drinking place of bisquin with an unfrozen fire hydrant.

http://produits-btp.batiproduits.com/AV ... #icone_doc

For the cafeteria ... Keep the room frost-free by letting the bisquins sleep there ...

[Alain G]

The drip works well!

My brother-in-law who had a small barn with 5 horses was faced with the same problem of freezing the arrival of water at ground level, his solution let a tap run in an insulated plastic tank located on the ceiling which by gravity supplied the drinkers, of course all the pipes were well insulated up to the drinkers, but that solved the problem of frost, which here sometimes drops below 1.3 meters.

[dirk pitt]

ps: beast question, what happens if the outlet of the valves freezes?

it is just because water is constantly coming out that it does not freeze completely. you must have already seen spring outlets in the middle of winter: there is a large sleeve of ice around the outlet but there is always a passage for water (as long as it flows)

it may not seem econological but compared to draining the entire pipe every day (and with compressed air in addition) ...
I have one of these valves for 10 years in a drawer, I would have to find the time to try at the end of my garden hose.

[Forhorse]

If you are really afraid of the risk of fire with heating cords (if it is installed and protected correctly there is no reason, but hey everyone has their phobias) there is also the solution of the double envellope tube as it is done in industry for sensitive circuits.
The principle is simple: two concentric tubes, in the middle one passes the liquid to be heated, in the outside one circulates a heated liquid (generally brine)

Only a good pipefitter can do this kind of installation for you, and I'm not even talking about the price!

But we can adapt the system with a flexible hose, such as a tricoflex which runs along the hose to be freeze-proof and in which hot water is circulated (doable with a water heater and a boiler circulator)
The insulation of the assembly (with the sleeves provided especially for for example) is essential to limit energy expenditure.

[Alain G]

The heating wires are not dangerous for a fire, at least the ones we have here, the wire only heats in the cold place and stops heating if it reaches its temperature. It is both probe and element over its entire length.

At least that's the info that I was given!

[Forhorse]

Yes, these are the so-called "self-regulating" cords which can also be cut to the desired length.
There are also some in France, on the other hand the price is not the same as the cords which are sold in DIY stores.

I have to go to my wholesaler this week, I would try to ask the prices because I saw some at the horse show this year, it was close to 10 € per meter.