Internal operation of a UPS for PC?

[Christophe]

Since the paddle wheel is moving well (we will say that I have exceeded 50%) I start to think about the "electric" side.

Basically here is what I want to do:

12V generator -> regulator (solar type) -> 12V "buffer" battery (car recover for the moment, 40Ah, if that is not enough I would take a new one) -> inverter 12V - 230V -> on feeds the current back into the house in a completely separate network -> new PC-type inverter (with a small battery) (last current filtering function) -> use (pc + printer initially)

My questions concern the "PC type inverter", current filtering function. The 1st question is not easy I will try to be clear.

a) When the inverter is supplied by the "mains" (ie without voltage break, no use of the internal battery), is the voltage "re-rippled" internally or not?

In other words: does ALL the current pass ALL the time through the internal inverter or is it re-rippled only when the mains voltage breaks?

If there is no break, is it the mains voltage which enters and leaves directly? That is to say without being "filtered"?

b) Are these inverters (specially made for PC) pure or modified sine wave type?

c) Can the maximum power of the inverter be exceeded when the sector is supplying?

I have this model: MGE UPS Ellipse 600 (but are all the same I think). 360W and 7 Ah.

The 1st 12V battery noted "buffer" will only act as a "regulator" since it will be supplied permanently by the wheel: it will therefore not undergo (too much) cyclic charge / discharge like a wind turbine or solar PV. It should therefore not wear out too quickly!

Ayhé my head hurts!

[Christophe]

Well, I already have an answer to my question b):

Uninterrupted Power Supply (UPS) technology
Off-line
Input voltage range
AC 184 - 264 V
Input voltage range (adjustable)
AC 161 - 284 V
Frequency required
50 / 60 Hz
Input connector (s)
1 x IEC connector
Output Voltage
AC 220/230/240 V (50/60 Hz)
Output connector (s)
4 x three-pole power supply (France / Belgium)
Output connector details
1 x three-pole power supply (France / Belgium) (anti-surge) ¦ 3 x three-pole power supply (France / Belgium) (anti-cut and anti-surge)
Power supplied
360 Watt / 600VA
Surge suppressor for data lines
Telephone / network line
Output waveform
Approaching sine wave

[coucou789456]

Good evening

Online: the inverter works all the time by filtering the imperfections of the current.
Offline: the inverter only trips in the event of a power outage or a large voltage variation.

offline inverters are said to be quite mainstream and of moderate cost.
online are generally of higher power and therefore necessarily higher cost.
but nothing prevents you in an installation like yours from artificially switching the inverter so that it undulates constantly, perhaps adding the radiator of the power stage of a small fan.

jeff

[elephant]

It is better for the inverter to run continuously when you want to avoid blackouts, for example to power computers. There is of course a regulation because it is necessary to obtain 230V, even when there is only 11 V in the battery. It is not recommended to let the battery drop below 10,5 V, because then it no longer recovers its capacity.
In this case, the admissible load never exceeds the capacity of the inverter.
On the other hand, if it is for lighting or household appliances, we can withstand a few milliseconds of transition.

I am surprised by the data: admissible load: 360W / 600 VA: big difference, right?

[dirk pitt]

It is better for the inverter to run continuously when you want to avoid blackouts, for example to power computers.

Uh ... even small consumer off-line inverters for computers correctly ensure the transition during the power outage.
It is true that their switching time is not zero but in general compatible with the PC power supplies, that's why we buy them!

[Christophe]

Ah great thanks for the answers.

So since my inverter is an OFF LINE inverter, it will not be able to act as a current filter permanently?
So if I want to perform this function, would I have to buy a "professional" ONLINE inverter?

I've just?

elephant, disagree: what do you call a micro cut? 50 ms? 500ms? 2 sec? I think that the triggering technology (a beast relay) is almost as responsive as it is for professional and private models. The tripping speed of a relay depends more on electromagnetic laws than on relay technology, right? Now in the table above it effectively lacks the speed of communication ... I suppose with the ladle that it is located between 50 and 300 ms ... beyond the material would risk to feel it.

For the delta 360W / 600VA it also seems enormous ("absorbable" cos phi of 0.6) PC screens (fluorescent tube) have a cos phi which can drop quite a bit, it is surely for this? Or is it because of the printers' engines? He must have a good reason.

[bobono]

For what to make simple when we can make complicated.

Desktop PCs work with 12 volts from a switching power supply. I just bought a converter of 600 watts which can go up to 1200 watts in peak with auto disjunction in excess for 25 €
It is stopped if the battery drops below 10.5 volts.
A power supply from this converter with switching to the mains if the battery is low should be correct as installed.

[dirk pitt]

For the delta 360W / 600VA it also seems enormous ("absorbable" cos phi of 0.6) PC screens (fluorescent tube) have a cos phi which can drop quite a bit, it is surely for this? Or is it because of the printers' engines? He must have a good reason.

the low-end cutting alims have cos phi degeu.

[dirk pitt]

in your system as you describe above, why use two inverters?
in fact, the "buffer" battery you are talking about will be quite simply parallel to the battery of the main inverter

So you end up with a standard "off line" inverter that is never connected to the 220V edf network. it is therefore always on battery but with a battery that never drains because it is permanently charged by your paddle wheel.

Of course, the inverter must be placed closer to the 12V source than to the 220 use to limit losses.

[Christophe]

Yes you understood Pitt correctly: the 2nd inverter should remain on the "secondary network" without tripping (except in the event of a problem)!

I use the 2nd inverter simply to "protect" sensitive equipment in the event of failure or "upstream" problem.

Because I intend to connect, essentially, the wheel on a work desk therefore with desktop PC, printer ... in short, "expensive" equipment!

But actually this 2nd inverter will not be used all the time. For example when the office is not in use, I will have to find a "load shedding" ... but that's another step!