DJU France: map and history by regions

[CRETE]

take a look at it .. hyperweight slab on hedgehog .. insulation by 2x8cm cork outside..etc .. http://www.architecturenaturelle.com/projets-101-2.html
Have a good day

Damn, superb, it makes you want ...!

Two questions :
- how much it costs (!), with (if possible) in comparison, the standard price in the corner ...
- how the roof water evacuation (north facade) takes place. The tiles seem to recover only a small part.

the price had to be mentioned on this site, if not, contact Rbobeda on Futura-sciences, bioclimatic habitat section

compared to a standard house, the price must be 5 to 10% higher, due to the absence of central heating or unnecessary heat pumps, convectors provide the APPOINT - I mean "additional" and not main heating and , according to the latest news, consumption was much lower than expected during Comfie & Pleiades simulations ... with much better summer comfort than expected

Inter-seasonal storage is also an interesting avenue, a number of maions have been built but in total discretion, which is a shame .. on Futura-sciences, follow the "inter-seasonal storage" thread to find out more = autonomy from 85% to 90 % ...

- how the roof water evacuation (north facade) takes place.

again, you must ask Rbobeda ....

[Christophe]

For the calculation of 50 or 80, it is:

Conventional primary energy consumption (Cep according to the Th-CE-ex calculation method) for:

* heating,
* the recooling,
* ventilation,
* the auxiliaries,
* domestic hot water production
* lighting of premises

The conventional primary energy consumption must be less than or equal to a value in kWh / m² Shon of primary energy which is expressed in the form:
Cep <or = 80 x (a + b).

So that, I have a lot of trouble believing that we will get there !! It smells like a big green farce!

How can we distinguish the consumption of household appliances from that of lighting? Want to put X electrical circuits for X meter? What does this include what the "auxiliaries"?

2 examples to show that it will be hard:

a) a pc in a studio of 20 m² a little pirate student who runs 24/24 and consumes 100W of average will consume 876 kWh / year or 43.8 kWh / m².an or 113 kWh EP / m².an then we are far from 50 kWh EP !!

b) a dual-flow VMC (you know the so-called super eco-friendly stuff, which, to hear the daily newspapers, can heat an entire house) whose engine runs 24/24 and which consumes 50 to 100 W, say 75W 24/24 will weigh it alone 650 kWh or 1700 kWh EP! For a house of 100 m² it will therefore already be 17 kWh EP / m².year or already 34% of 50 kWh EP just for VMC !!

Besides, to come back to your previous question, the zoning of the coef "a" here is very different from the DJU map. In fact the heating needs must not be simply proportional to the UDI, but also inversely proportional to the free inputs (sunshine). This is one more reason not to use the kWh / DJU.m², because the DJU do not take into account solar gains, only a difference in T ° (measured under cover).

Well not too much agree:

a) the DJUs take into account the average outside temperature measured in the shade, so it depends on the sunshine
b) the UDI are thus at 0 when the setpoint T ° (18 °)> average T °
c) free contributions will be included in "kWh"
d) and finally you can have a house in the south but very badly oriented that has very little free radiation

By cons at "unit" level what is a DJU?

The DJU is in ° .h? So ° .time is ultimately a unit: energy / ° .time.surface for kWh / DJU.m²

However, the thermal resistance of a material is in °. Surface / power. And we all know that power = energy / time is Thermal R = ° .surface.time / energy!

The kWh / DJU.m² are therefore of the same dimension as the "thermal conductivity" of a building!

In the end we therefore have an interesting equivalence (very):

Consumption in kWh / DJU.m² = 1 / R

With R = R overall of the building and that is really instructive!

Conclusion: using kWh / DJU.m², in 1 figure this allows in one figure to obtain the losses per m² and therefore the insulation capacity of a building whatever the outside T °! What the unit kWh / year.m² does not allow because it does NOT include the T ° delta with the outside.

What do building thermal studies professionals think?

So it would be time to set up the FLDJU (Unified Day Degree Liberation Front)!

[Capt_Maloche]

OH the ball!

The auxiliaries of an installation are the pumps, the regulation and all that can consume energy for the operation of the heating system

It is true that reaching 50 KW.h / m² and per year is not given to everyone, these values ​​are only true for heating and ventilation, but impossible to maintain if we add the equipment annexes like PCs, TVs, household appliances

EXCEPT if it is a positive energy house, with 20 to 100m² of photo voltaic panels, wind turbine, or wheel at Daube as you do now

For DJUs, I will come back to this, my colleague is waiting for me: A LA BOUFFE!

[Christophe]

EXCEPT if it is a positive energy house, with 20 to 100m² of photo voltaic panels, wind turbine, or wheel at Daube as you do now

Yes but the texts do not hear this kind of thing ... although I saw something on PV on minenergie ... but you know what we think of PV here below ...

Attention we speak well in kWh EP (do not forget the coef. 2.58 therefore)

Auxiliaries: a circulator which consumes 60W and which runs 24/24 (or almost, for DHW) is again 60 * 8.76 * 2.58 = 1358 kWh EP / year!

So for a 100m² house: VMC + boiler DHW circulator = 14 + 17 = 62% of 50 kWh / m².year !!

We walk on our heads even without a TV ... 50 kWh / m².year it's impractical taking electricity into account ... with modern comfort!

It is like the passive houses "of the north", without heating but with halogens which turn 12/24 ...

Ah in passivity, we count that what we want to count ...

[Chartrousin]

I agree that it is very difficult to achieve.
Some clarification on the calculations that I have advanced:

- I confirm the items which are taken into account in this calculation: especially heating + ventilation + DHW

- then, I agree with your examples, but you have to keep in mind that this is a calculation of what is called a "conventional consumption" Cep, ie theoretical, according to the calculation method used. In the software, we enter the characteristics of the frame, the heating system, DHW and ventilation and it takes out the Vine. It is sometimes a little different from the actual bills (for example, the inhabitant heats up to 23 ° instead of 18, that changes everything ...).

- indeed, the EP coefficient of 2.58 leads to a lot of electricity (but for the future RT they are talking about "adjusting" it so as not to overload the electrical sector ... ); on the other hand as regards BBC-Effinergie there is a coef favoring wood in EP: 0,6

- I think you slightly overestimate the consumption of auxiliaries, the calculations have never given me so much. On the other hand, your remark is entirely justified: in a BBC house, the consumption of auxiliaries + ventilation takes on great importance, and even becomes preponderant when you go a little lower

- concerning double flows, it is necessary to pay close attention to the equipment installed; with some vmc2f, the gain is almost zero because of the consumption of the electric fan with a coef of 2.58. But there are some very efficient (and also very expensive ...). The figure of 17kWhEP / m².year does not surprise me more than that, for a vmc2f not very efficient; but it makes it difficult to reach the goal of 50 with average equipment.

-for PV or wind production, it is deducted, but within a maximum limit of 12kWhEP / m².year, so that we cannot compensate for a large consumption of heating / poor insulation by production equivalent.

[Chartrousin]

Small example on my last calculation to date, following the rt calculation method:
Building = 275m² on 2 levels; construction = ~ 1960; poorly insulated walls and ceiling, reinforced double-glazed windows, heating + gas DHW (old boiler ...)

results:
Cep = 304kWh / m².an of which: 276 for heating, 16 for DHW, 8 for lighting and 4 for auxiliaries
(no vmc)


After works: (exterior wall insulation, floor and ceiling insulation, hygro vmc and pellet boiler)
Cep = 96kWh / m².an including 65 for heating, 10 for DHW, 8 for lighting, 2 for auxiliaries, 11 for vmc

This is a very large (costly) renovation, but we have reached the BBC-Effinergie renovation (104kWh / m².year here, because climate coefficient 1.3).
It is not impossible, it is just difficult to achieve. It is on the other hand much less expensive if it is planned from the construction (hence the future regulations).

[Capt_Maloche]

Attention we speak well in kWh EP (do not forget the coef. 2.58 therefore)

Auxiliaries: a circulator which consumes 60W and which runs 24/24 (or almost, for DHW) is again 60 * 8.76 * 2.58 = 1358 kWh EP / year!


Ah in passivity, we count that what we want to count ...

that is true that

60W = 0,060 KW
correction: 0.060 * 24 * 365 * 2.58 / 100m² = 13.54 kWh EP / year!

[Woodcutter]

Yes I forked from where the "" to be honest I put RT before HQE ...
But I still don't know what Bibissi means [...]

M'enfin! The last time you asked me, I gave you explanations!

Do you think that the general public knows more about the concept of kWh than DJU? When we see on some industrial brochures (small) confusion between kW and kWh is enough ... not nothing ... but frankly ...

Ben, the general public knows the kWh of his electric bill, he knows the m2 of his house and it is quite easy, at trade fairs, to explain the link between the two and the "terminals" corresponding to the old one, to the RT2005, future RT ...
But DJUs, I have never tried to introduce this to trade fairs yet and I don't think I will risk it anytime soon!
Chartrousin, what do you think?

[Capt_Maloche]

anyway, DJU or KW.h, you have to make the thermal balance of the house

on the other hand, from your annual consumption and the DJU of the region during a heating season, we can deduce an estimate of its losses, as I did a little before

[Chartrousin]

But DJUs, I have never tried to introduce this to trade fairs yet and I don't think I will risk it anytime soon!
Chartrousin, what do you think?

Uh DJU I won't risk it either!
The kWh still passes, if we start to go into detail and talk about primary energy it gets complicated ...
We are already spending a lot of time explaining why their actual consumption is very different from conventional DPE calculations, so go into detail and talk about DJU ... It seems very complicated to me!