Is Jean-Marc Jancovici a c ...?

[ENERC]

That does not prevent, Norway produces all its electricity by renewables while exporting its gas and oil, and is doing very well, so your explanation must not be the right one.

The case of Norway is a good reason not to be pessimistic about the future

[Christophe]

But why, if it is so interesting, the countries potentially concerned, with very rare exceptions, do not deploy thermodynamic solar power plants en masse to meet their own needs in the first place?

There are a few in Spain, aren't there? With molten salts for overnight buffering!

But I think that at the current PV price (0.2 $ / Wp ex factory in China), the solar concentration is more too interesting ...

[sicetaitsimple]

There are a few in Spain, aren't there? With molten salts for overnight buffering!

But I think that at the current PV price (0.2 $ / Wp ex factory in China), the solar concentration is more too interesting ...

Yes, built over 10 years ago on the basis of crazy purchase prices .... Indeed, big PV boom in Spain at the moment, on the basis of PPA (Power Purchase Agreement) between a developer and a big customer, even if I have read it completely on the market.

[Obamot]

As I said before, the problem is political. European nations seek to ensure security of energy supply. With thermodynamic solar, this is not guaranteed as much as we would like. We may have to buy the deserts and turn them into no men's land (no, I'm kidding ... whatever ...)

You still cannot imagine that I am going to put my ass out to explain again for the umpteenth time why thermodynamic solar energy is the future. Just look at the thread on Desertec indeed. Except for the question of storage temperatures and that of the heat transfer fluid ã approx. 400 ° C according to physicist Jean-Pierre Petit, everything is correct.

Between the yield of PV and thermal energy, there is no picture. But as Christophe says, the PV has its place. I'm not spitting on PV, on the contrary, and we're talking about an energy mix, we take everything. However, for large power plants, thermodynamics will undoubtedly prevail.

Already because we will have no other choice and the problem of transporting the electricity produced seems to have finally been resolved.

As a reflection on the subject:

For thermodynamic solar energy, I would like to remind you that industrial monsters like Siemens and ABB have already done all the calculations. And Deutsche Bank was involved. I still think the Germans know what they are doing.

[sicetaitsimple]

Between the yield of PV and thermal, there's no picture.

We don't give a damn about the return to the extent that the resource is free. In addition, the efficiency of thermodynamic solar energy is still not terrible .... The only thing that really matters is the cost of MWh ex-factory. And there, in about 10 years, everything changed, in favor of PV.
We'll see, but in the short / medium term I don't really see this technology really developing in volume.

[Obamot]

And why not? I am not against. Note, however, the efficiency of thermodynamic solar ":
8 to 10% for the lowest temperatures and we can exceed 30%. average yield, probably around 20-25%.
You have to be reasonable! PV yield in cloudy weather, it is not folichon compared to thermodynamic solar, which far exceeds nuclear power.

In regions with strong sunshine, which are suitable for establishment, direct sunshine is greater than 2 kWh / m000 / year.

In the short term, no. There is nothing at the moment, it's political. Pity ! Finally these times things change quickly ...

[sicetaitsimple]

You have to be reasonable! PV yield in cloudy weather, it is not folichon compared to thermodynamic solar, which far exceeds nuclear power.

Whatever! In cloudy weather, thermodynamics is zero! While the PV does what it can anyway. Find out a little before you say bullshit.

[Obamot]

Bah, in the desert ... It is you who zone in the desert ... until it is covered ...

It's you who are completely kidding my poor man, you had the figure, these 2 kWh / m000 / year include very few covered periods. And then the heat is stored in molten sodium (or other thermal balloon) and the production does not stop.

Well, what you're saying is again stupid things to show you nasty or else (?) I think I'm going to block you.

[sicetaitsimple]

You have to be reasonable! PV yield in cloudy weather, it is not folichon compared to thermodynamic solar, which far exceeds nuclear power.

Whatever! In cloudy weather, thermodynamics is zero! While the PV does what it can anyway. Find out a little before you say bullshit.

You're just talking nonsense ..
But if thermodynamic solar energy is so efficient, you should explain to us why it is not developing more, including in countries with favorable sunshine conditions.

[ABC2019]

That does not prevent, Norway produces all its electricity by renewables while exporting its gas and oil, and is doing very well, so your explanation must not be the right one.

The case of Norway is a good reason not to be pessimistic about the future

Find out anyway about the source of its electricity before you rejoice (it's not solar)