A new world without rules, good or bad?

[Philippe Schutt]

In any society there have been dominants who determine the rules and dominated, and it is always the same, simply they are no longer the same.
it was the nobles, then the industrialists, and now?
-The nobles apparently emigrated massively to Africa during the colonization, cf. the particle names of the landowners.
- 19th century industrialists either went into exile in America or were swept away by the new economy. In fact, their wealth based on heavy investment did not hold up against the speed of product renewal and offshoring.

There remain the politicians and their "friends". First restricted to the enarques, this caste showed its power during their self-decided amnesty. More recently, the introduction of a special unemployment scheme.

What rules follow or have these different communities followed?
Nobles: narcissism, but disinterested and still a little concerned for the well-being of their people.
The industrialists of the 19th century: megalomaniacs, lived by and often for their firm. Close to the moral precedents, the concept of work and merit in addition.
Politicians: Alone not having created their power with their hands, they must coax their contemporaries. What qualities can we hope for, if not deception and venality? What moral will these people promote?

[Ahmed]

The ideal society obviously never existed ...
The motives of the dominant and the ideology that goes with it (= propaganda) have varied over time.
Today the dominant caste manipulates, of course, the levers, but does it have more freedom than the dominated?
He, leaned towards the observation of an autonomy of the technician system.
The existence of this dominant / dominated dualism is an archaism which, harmful, becomes extremely dangerous because of the current capacities to transform nature (= destroy).

What has linked since the interwar period in the USA and after the Second World War in France is the Fordist pact, a compromise which, in exchange for greater alienation at work and in everyday life, a material standard of living never reached before.
The paradox, of course, is that "what made a link" was at the same time the renunciation of social ties other than those existing in the relationship to work and to the commodity.

Today, this pact is broken by those very who had instituted it ... no doubt that otherwise many critics and indignant people would be much more indulgent on the so-called "drifts" of the "misguided" finance ...
This rupture refers to the brutality of economic power struggles, formerly partially obscured by this wobbly complicity and which was exerted on others, further ...

[Obamot]

I've read here and there twice, something about the indignant. Like the fact that they would ultimately be inclined to join with feet feet a model not so far from the current one. So it was no better than the rest.

Yes is no. To draw better conclusions, it must be seen that their postulate is, and clearly has been, to denounce the "conspiracy" in speculative finance circles, which led to the exit of the economy (as seen on the "academic" level ), out of its adjustment variables! Conspiracy or natural consequence of the subprime crisis, no matter what, and probably out of opportunism a bit of both ... While for their part, the national banks pointed out, swore by their great gods that only stability was the "grail of a balanced budget" even though they were in full contradiction, since they had played an active role in the airplane game, by playing the fire brigade once the plane crashed in 2008 (the very one of subprime and the American debt debacle ...)!

... from the hand of virtue, all the banks then propagate the good word of budgetary rigor to swallow the word to the good people ... while on the other they perceive the juicy late interest. .. And that the erasure of certain interests will reappear sooner or later by those who have bought the debt ...

And governments do not flinch, because on the one hand they are the guarantors of the established system (blocked in various ways but certainly legally by their commitments, and their own investments in the bond market, in particular through funds of pension, and internationally, via the Gatt agreements, etc.) and on the other hand: what is due is ... due: and they too will be ready to repay once the crisis has passed, to the great detriment of " good people "(otherwise it would be a taboo to overturn and the whole system would collapse, precisely what they do not want since that is why the European economy has been partially put on a drip! So at best, governments - under the aegis of spheres of influence - attempt the status quo ....)

Because it is unthinkable either that they accept that their own investments in bond market funds, remain at modest rates of return when it comes to remunerating investments, while on the markets, via edge funds [i by sophisticated and occult stock market mounting], these same funds are placed as high-yield products ... Which mixed with rotten assets, in financial arrangements supposed to be reliable but above all jammers of tracks ... Eventually lead to the current situation.

Morality, as everyone is involved, we are bathed in hypocrisy. And everyone prefers to keep quiet about the real problems.

Thus, the indignant made a declaration of war in order against these deceptions by denouncing: the aforesaid mechanisms, as well as the heavy responsibility of the banks with the semantic complicity (?) Of the constituted bodies which are the governments, in particular in the attribution of the lines credits, which they could not ignore that they would lead a good number of borrowers in the inability to repay => the collapse of the economy leading individuals to no longer be able to meet their commitments by domino effect, and therefore to fail to repay their own debts (which also concerns sovereign debt).

And the height: the banks to tighten the granting of loans, under the pretext of the fragility of small savers to repay (while they are themselves the artisans of this debacle ...). Whether they have benefited from it or suffered little at this stage, there is indeed a boomerang effect that they initiated and then make them pay!

The betrayal is huge, I find it difficult to accept this as being a simple "systemic" variable. The truth is that this is a slippery slope where laws struggle to be applied ... But for economists themselves to take to the streets, there must be a big problem in the reds! Perhaps they end up becoming clairvoyant?



So to denounce a break in a supposedly virtuous system, or when everything goes wrong, loyalty and good principles are put away in the dustbin, I don't call that democracy, but a system led by cleaning ladies who hide the dust on the carpet! And it is perhaps there that economists reconvert in times of crisis ...

I would end by admitting - of course - that "restore growth"is a plaster on a wooden leg. But it is the only possible transitional means to lower the odious blackmail of speculative finance, which uses the lever of debt in order to continue to juicy profits from the imposed paradigm of budgetary rigor (which is only there to hide their actions, while they are a real concern).

(Now I'm going to make myself a little kawa arabica, with coffee beans bought peanut in emerging countries and sold here very expensive after speculation on raw materials ... We live in a great world!)

[Ahmed]

I am, and I persist and sign, very critical of the movement of "indignant", not that they are wrong to be indignant, or that their report is wrong, but because their analysis is fundamentally superficial and false. It cannot therefore lead to anything really constructive.

The observation is that of the rupture of the Fordian pact * which leads to a growing inequality; this observation is simple but its analysis is much more complex and it is unfortunate that it is saved ...

* If this pact had not been untied, I still believe that the beneficiaries of developed countries would have been much less sensitive to the injustices committed in the south for their comfort than to those of which they are the victims today.

[Obamot]

Yes ! Well, nothing changes and nothing will change: what a disappointment!

The current model, developed or not, is fraught with the contradictions highlighted above ...!

Once again, the votes were confiscated on the altar of the quest for "growth". Which means nothing but a headlong rush. And above all, everyone is scared of change.

... or accepted at homeopathic doses ...

The principle of "Positive compromise"Adopted by Hollande, is a new" socialist patch ", which will not prevent drifts from (re) occurring. Worse, it will make swallowing the reform pill much easier than Sarkozy would have done ... By dressing them with a little optimism and ethics (it's pure Herzberg adapted to politics ... )

Finally it is the German pragmatism which prevails in the current deal ...

It only remains to prepare for the coming of an extremist majority in five years, if the socialists fail? Or back to Fillon and Mc Gregor! That we are cons ...

[sen-no-sen]

I am, and I persist and sign, very critical of the movement of "indignant", not that they are wrong to be indignant, or that their report is wrong, but because their analysis is fundamentally superficial and false. It cannot therefore lead to anything really constructive.

Moreover, the movement of "indignant", like most "revolutionary" movements (hum..hum!) Are led by groups of dubious origins ....

This is particularly understandable in cold weather with the Arab Spring (aimed at removing from power non-aligned governments in the globalist movement), or with our own May 68, which had at its head useful idiots of the Cohn Bendit type ...

[Ahmed]

The title of the thread is misleading or wrong: the new world has different, but very real rules ...
The transition from an external aggression logic (beneficiary for the aggressor) to an autoimmune attack destabilizes public opinion, like the destruction of twin towers stunned American citizens.
By blurring the benchmarks, the attackers have a good head start ...

@ Obamot:

Yes ! Well, nothing changes and nothing will change: what a disappointment!

It is possible to change an unwritten future, but this possibility is indeed very slim as long as an obsolete reading grid is applied to a new situation.

Once again, the votes were confiscated on the altar of the quest for "growth".

Votes are always confiscated, they just serve to establish a legitimacy opposable to citizens.

It only remains to prepare for the coming of an extremist majority in five years, if the socialists fail? Or back to Fillon and Mc Gregor! That we are cons ...

Governments reflect changes more than they cause them. The continuation of the current trend, in the absence of an appropriate reaction, goes towards an unpleasant hardening which could translate politically (in the governmental sense) by a navy blue success or by an equivalent, if it is "blown" instead that 'she will be heated, by more powerful than she ...

[the middle]

I'm picking up a bit right now, too many truths come out.
It hurts, because too true.

[Obamot]

It's bad that makes you feel good

Don't hang up ...

[chatelot16]

for me it's simple: a civilized society must have precise and effective rules for the general interest

in the absence of an effective rule, it is the law of the jungle: the strongest will always know how to take advantage of the situation only for their benefit

is democracy a way to define effective rules? it's really not easy

see the history of the French revolution, which produced only a lamentable paddle! it's a dictator like napoleon who built an administration, and a civil code that always works