Very rigorous winters

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by Christophe » 22/11/05, 14:01

former oceanic wrote:When we see this animation of the Gulf Stream, we see the speed decrease and therefore the transported heat rises less high ...

Gulf Stream animation

By being slower, it delivers more energy over the tropical Atlantic, hence the more powerful hurricanes, and the very first in the East Atlantic ...

So it is very likely that we are going towards cold winters like in the Lower Dryas ...


Very interesting but I don't understand anything about the animation units (m / B, m / A and the figures that define above?) ... do you have any idea? In any case I did not think it was so winding and so "fine" (I thought 500 to 1000 km wide) but the animation does not allow me to conclude anything ...
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by Former Oceano » 22/11/05, 20:01

What is displayed at the top left is the date of the image in American, ie year from 03 to 05, month from 01 to 12 and then the days.

On the left the scale is that of North latitudes and below that of Longitudes West. For example, the tip of Florida is at 80 ° W and 25 ° N.

The colors of the image are a function of the speed of the current. We notice the drop in the speed of the Gulf-Stream. The unit is in m / s.

The Ligurian current which is 'fast' and runs through the North West of the Mediterranean is 0,3 m / s ...
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by Christophe » 23/11/05, 13:48

Ok it's a little clearer now ... on the other hand I can't really discern a real drop in speed ... What is certain is that it fluctuates a lot.

Do you think the gulf stream is an extremely fast current?
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by Former Oceano » 23/11/05, 21:48

The slowdown can be seen especially towards the east of the animation.

The Gulf Stream is indeed a 'fast' current from the oceanographic point of view, because even if its speed is lower than m / s, we must remember the significant difference in density of water compared to that of air. Kinetic energy is therefore important.

The more the current slows down, the more time it will have to transmit heat over the western part of the Atlantic. So less heat energy will be available for the eastern part ...
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by Christophe » 23/11/05, 22:15

Ok :)

Did you study the ocean currents a bit during your thesis, I suppose?

Seen on: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_stream


Possibilities of disappearance of the Gulf-stream
For more than a million years, the Earth has known a succession of glaciations and inter-glacial periods, with a periodicity of 100 years. Each of these periods lasts roughly 000 years with transitions of approximately 10 years. It was found, thanks to ice samples in Antarctica, that the CO² rate in the atmosphere varied with temperatures. It oscillated indeed from 000 ppmv during glaciations to 40 ppmv in inter-glacial periods (000 ppmv is one part per million in volume, that is to say 180 cm³ per m³ of air). We have been in an inter-glacial period for 280 years today. Everything suggests that the next glaciation is not far away.

However, with human activities, the level of CO² in the atmosphere reaches 370 ppmv, a level never reached in the last million years. Its growth accelerates and becomes exponential, so that in 2050, it should reach 700 ppmv, and have thus doubled. Without forgetting methane, resulting from the digestion of ruminants and marshes and rice fields, which is also a greenhouse gas, and which is also increasing rapidly. We already know that the temperature has increased by 0,6 ° C in 10 years, on the surface of the globe; and that by expansion of hot water the level of the oceans rises (the melting of continental glaciers cannot induce a quantifiable rise in the oceans).

But on the North Atlantic, another phenomenon, linked to global warming, is lying in wait. The greenhouse effect is melting Arctic glaciers, but also increasing rainfall in the North Atlantic. These two phenomena combined are at the origin of a supply of fresh water to this region. If ever the latter were to be too large, as was the case at the start of the last ice age (around 11 BCE: glaciers are melting in North America, releasing the waters of immense lakes which cool the currents marine and produce a general cooling of the Earth's climate), then the Gulf Stream could disappear. Indeed, a large supply of fresh water would increase the differences in water salinity between the equator and the Norwegian Sea. The place of diving of warm and salt water would be found at the level of the Azores; and the Gulf Stream would fold in on itself, no longer going beyond the Azores.

This climatic upheaval would be very rapid: in less than 10 years, the temperature of all of Western Europe (from Portugal to Finland) would drop by 5 ° C. When we know that average temperatures drop by one degree Celsius every 500 km of latitude, we would find the climate from Oslo to Madrid. But this cooling would be much more marked in winter than in summer, because the ocean jet stream would bring directly to Europe, the climate of Canada. Bordeaux, which is at the same latitude as Montreal, could regularly have temperatures of -25 ° C in the middle of winter. This climate change would be so rapid that it is called "climate surprise". This would be the brutal arrival of a glaciation on Western Europe, with extension of the glaciers. But in reality, it would not be one, since on all the rest of the globe, the greenhouse effect would continue to raise temperatures, melt glaciers, and rise the sea. What would happen on Western Europe would therefore be very localized, but would favor the development of European winter sports. Indeed, in Europe, glaciers would expand, while elsewhere, they would melt! This is why, the sea level would continue to rise, despite this local cold snap. In true glaciation, it would have been 100 meters lower.

However, this theory needs to be verified, hence the use of the conditional. For the moment, this brutal local climate change is envisaged for the second half of the XNUMXst century.

Retrieved from " http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_Stream »
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by Former Oceano » 23/11/05, 22:37

Optimists are those who promise this deadline.

I share the catastrophic opinion of some who think that it will happen in 50 years. I place the deadline between 10 and 20 years maximum because the Gulf Stream would have slowed by almost 20% ... And I'm not the only one ... The director of the WHOI (Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute) also projects a deadline in this interval.

In addition, there may be a complete shutdown of the Gulf Stream - it has already happened.

If a cold period, it will therefore involve more heating, therefore more CO2 ... We are bad we are bad ...
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by lau » 24/11/05, 00:09

I read all of your posts and the links and I'm already getting cold! : Shock:

I would add my grain of salt (no pun intended) by saying that all the rivers of Siberia which flow into the North Atlantic, whose flow has increased dramatically in recent years, would have more impact, in terms of lower salinity in cold waters, than melting glaciers!

Source doc Arte
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we are bad we are bad ... but we bury ourselves?




by Christophe » 24/11/05, 11:11

former oceanic wrote:Optimists are those who promise this deadline.

If a cold period, it will therefore involve more heating, therefore more CO2 ... We are bad we are bad ...


Yes or a runaway ... And the oil tankers are happy it will be all the more money for them ... just like the great Canadian North that they will be able to exploit thanks to the warming (that this is the passage of the North West or the region's oil fields)

Speaking of runaway, another makes me more "afraid" (the gulf stream ca remains rather "local": Europe and North America) .... it's the release of methane hydrates (if it's not already started?) ... And it will be the 6th mass extinction .... Apparently it is this phenomenon which explains that of the First 250 million years ago.

Except that, at the time, the initiating phenomenon of warming had been a very important series of volcanic eruptions (so bcp of CO2 in the atmosphere) today this phase is replaced by the use of fossil fuels. At least it was the conclusion of a doc I recently saw: http://www.arte-tv.com/fr/semaine/244,b ... =2005.html

ps: orders of magnitude on the Gulf Stream http://www.clubdesargonautes.org/observation/odg.htm
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by Christophe » 24/11/05, 11:30

Little calculation on the power of the Gulf Stream: it is given (page above) of 3 PW or 3x10 ^ 15 W.

Now the (electrical) power of a nuclear reactor is 1 GW = 1x10 ^ 9 W

The gulf stream therefore has the thermal power of 3 nuclear reactors (but it would perhaps be necessary to do the calculation on thermal and nonelectric energy, that is to say 000 times fewer reactors although thermal energy is not very representative ) ... When I was talking about several tens of thousands of nuclear power plants, I was still far from the count ... We understand that a few% less which represent a phenomenal power have an important influence on the climate ....

But what does the climate police do?
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by Other » 24/11/05, 16:14

Hello,
But what does the climate police do?
She watches the tanks that rolls in potato oil! heating with wood, that's serious,
She does what our politicians do, head in the sand
But no we must not make similar comments, we must reassure the population, we must show a strong and safe government
and then considering the average age of our elected officials, he doesn't care about other generations, he is in debt, borrowing in the name of the well-being of the country. So don't talk about the climate, for them it's a bit like clairvoyance.
We just have to look at the behavior of our neighbors to the south
the biggest energy consumers in the world, how it behaves, Their president said (priority No one energy)
I don't know how he interprets the amount of hurricane that hits them, but I'm sure he knows and doesn't do what?
Already that most of our forest is damaged by acid rain, the result of thermal coal power plants in the south, the rain here always comes from the hot humid air which comes from the south Atlantic, rises across the USA it clears the air of all its impurities to pour them on our forests, Fortunately that the winter the north wind crossing the forests remain still clean, for how long? Trout in lakes do not like acid rain.
Andre
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