Doping an internal combustion engine with water vapor

Edits and changes to engines, experiences, findings and ideas.
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Flytox
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Doping an internal combustion engine with water vapor




by Flytox » 12/03/07, 23:05

Hello everyone

New to the site but passionate about mechanics and ecology for a long time. I am mounting a R19 Diesel in steam doping. This is my first editing and I would like to receive your expert reviews on my layout before finalizing everything. Can not be very explicit the crobar .... The principle is to try to dose the water upstream of the GV rather than downstream with water vapor. It seemed more 'easy' to me.

Image


Econologically yours
Flytox
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
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by PITMIX » 12/03/07, 23:14

Hi welcome
Wow : Shock: it's high technology ... Very nice diagram.
I recognize the regulation part of the washer pump : Cheesy:
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by Other » 13/03/07, 00:54

Hello
welcome to water doping, beautiful drawing,
you do not do things in half, it requires a lot of energy to materialize such a montage at least the automaticity
I did not understand why the water is preheated with the engine water before going into the exhaust evaporator? in the start phase or the first 4 km this preheating is non-existent, the cyclone either, you want to make sure nothing but steam and separate the liquid, but in principle once past the exhaust is not bad steam

If you do not want to spend too much energy first test a simple steam intake in the manifold with a manual adjustment and verifies the results and where you have to concentrate in the control
or the kind of steam ..
I tell you this because to make such a beautiful montage without knowing if there are results at the end it can be frustrating for you in the end if the results are not as you want ...
Unless you have equipment and tools and you have time available for the project ..
Request advice to Laurent it is he who is the most advanced on the direct steam in the engines ..

Andre
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doping with water vapor




by Flytox » 14/03/07, 18:24

Lost message
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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doping with water vapor




by Flytox » 14/03/07, 20:08

Hello Pitmix, André and the others

Apparently my message yesterday was lost, I did not understand why. I had to do the ball with a command ?!

It's nice to interest you in my scheme.

Some info, to try to be clearer:
The basic idea is to make a GV the most responsive possible, 'able' to follow the needs of the engine when the load varies. So I chose a volume of water to heat low (1 / 4 1 / 2 liter?).
To further improve the reactivity, the GV consists of 4 6 / 8 mm copper pipes directly brazed externally, on the exhaust handlebar. (The heating area is very large compared to the volume of heated water). Finally, the water that reaches the SG is preheated with a bypass of the cooling circuit. (70 °?).
When the car returns to idle, the skin temperature of the exhaust drops to <100 ° in just a few seconds. There are therefore very few calories available to evaporate the water in the SG. So if the water is already hot, we will keep the production of steam 'a little longer'. Hot water is easier to evaporate than cold water).

Ideally, when the load is medium or high, the water vaporizes almost instantaneously by entering the GV and the volume of water in the pipes is very low and therefore the response is 'instantaneous' to the flow control settings. water. (If it does, I'm not saying conn .....)

For the cyclone, in my preliminary tests, I heated my copper pipes 6 / 8 mm by blow molding more or less 'abruptly' with water. On the other side he often comes out a violent puff of steam which leads with it full of big drops of water. This operation seemed to me too unstable and it seemed important to me never to send water in 'package' in the engine.

An anecdote, I saw a diesel engine with the cylinder head gasket that pissed the cooling water in the combustion chamber (for too long). Result, a breech riddled with dozens of holes (detonation) with a kind chocolate mousse appearance but more indigestible breech and dead piston.


André, I agree with you, I could have done much simpler and I have no guarantee or certainty for that my editing will work (especially the first time). But the pleasure of mechanics does not count ... For the time, the place and the equipment to put it all in focus, I think not be better off than the others.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Legend: Voltage step-down, Upper part of the GV, Solenoid valve 3 channels, Inlet assembly with cyclone, Electrical diagram.
(No electrician training ...... I hope it works)

Question: Is it necessary to fear that the intake resonator will condense a lot of water and cause me problems? Is it necessary to put a purge or is the passage of air energetic enough to remove the water as it condenses?

Pitmix, your assembly with constant level and pump of wiper, it happens to him to defuse 'without reason'? Mine carries bubbles from time to time. Can the pump work horizontally?

Good mechanics
Econologically yours
Flytox
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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doping with water vapor




by Flytox » 14/03/07, 20:20

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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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PITMIX
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by PITMIX » 14/03/07, 20:41

Hello
It's great what you do.
You have ideas that's good, go to the end, and especially if it does not work, do not lose hope.
My pump on the R5 was working horizontally but it was not defused for no reason, since there was no air intake.
The water was sprayed through a hole smaller than an insulin needle. The jet was as thin as a hair. So the air could not get in there. The pump was placed well below the mini level of my water tank to prevent defusing.
The real problem is rather to use very clean non-calcareous filtered water just before the nozzle to prevent it from clogging.
Even like that from time to time it is better to check if it is not clogged.
In fact with the steam temperature sensor you know very quickly if it's clogged or not.
On my R5 it did not heat up if there was no water.
Override spaces in your file names
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by zac » 14/03/07, 23:05

Hello
"The less simple it is, the less more complicated it is."
make a pantone with a model carburetor and a vacuum valve scooter 1.9l renault is the childhood of art, it works impeccable and you will not take your head 6 months.

@+

PS: contact me in MP if you want more accurate pipe

PS2: your woof to really a nice boilie
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This is not because I am con I try not to do smart things.
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Doped steam




by Flytox » 14/03/07, 23:30

https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partager/3voies.jpg

Thank you Pitmix for your info.
Do you have an idea of ​​the service life of the wiper pump?
As it heats a lot in 12 V (it's done for intermittent use) I feed it in 9V, I do not need much flow and pressure (today). It does not tell me if it can do as many hours as the engine. Did you measure your pressure before your syringe? Mine does not exceed 1.2 bars at 10V. (Renault)
Chao
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.

[Eugène Ionesco]

http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
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Re: doping steam




by camel1 » 14/03/07, 23:33

Hi Flytox!

Flytox wrote:...
The basic idea is to make a GV the most responsive possible, 'able' to follow the needs of the engine when the load varies. So I chose a volume of water to heat low (1 / 4 1 / 2 liter?).
To further improve the reactivity, the GV consists of 4 6 / 8 mm copper pipes directly brazed externally, on the exhaust handlebar. (The heating area is very large compared to the volume of heated water). Finally, the water that reaches the SG is preheated with a bypass of the cooling circuit. (70 °?).
When the car returns to idle, the skin temperature of the exhaust drops to <100 ° in just a few seconds. There are therefore very few calories available to evaporate the water in the SG. So if the water is already hot, we will keep the production of steam 'a little longer'. Hot water is easier to evaporate than cold water).


Well, I looked at your diagram, followed your explanations, I think you're going to take your head for not much ...
The concept of GVI is to heat a very small amount of water at a time, DIRECTLY by the exhaust gases, whose temperature is itself a function of engine power calls (and it reacts much faster than you do not think so!)
My developments in this area, showed me that the steam generation faithfully follows these stresses to the accelerator pedal.
In my mind, the GVI was the way to get rid of a whole bazaar of servos, valves and electronics, and to ensure that by drawing and sizing the elements, we have the Expected result with the minimum of elements at stake (the fewer elements, the more you reduce the risk of problem).

I know that when you come across something as simple as that:
http://reaction.directe1.free.fr/205D/gv.htm
we can say to ourselves: "It's too simple, I'll do better"
Say that this drawing is the result of long sessions of paper / pencil, followed by long sessions of testing / development / measurements, to stabilize a form that works and empirically refine the dimensions ...

I note, moreover, that in the last productions, we are moving more and more towards the principle of SGS, which is a good thing in itself. But to change the recipe that works to give him his paw, we can quickly go to disenchantment and discouragement.

If I took the trouble to give the plans (with full explanations and dimensions), it is to prevent new ones from wasting precious time, which is more lacking for most of us ...

If I have any advice for you, it is to start by taking inspiration from a "simple" drawing (but not so simplistic as it seems), to make it (there is a long way to go from paper to scrap), put it down, then measure your results ...
Then you can always ask yourself the question of improvement ...

And to paraphrase your signature:

The more you pedal less quickly, the less you walk more slowly! : Lol:

Good cogitations, and welcome to the club!

Michel
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We were on the brink, but we made a big step forward ...

 


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