Doping water Motor: thermodynamic

[Capt_Maloche]

Hello Capt_Maloche

for the torch effect, in aeronautics on civil aircraft reactors, the surfaces to be protected from the combustion chamber at 2600 ° C are perforated with multiple orifices into which high-pressure air is injected, in order to create a air boundary layer

there are solutions to any problem

In aeronautics too, they try to limit NOx and avoid temperatures of 2600 °. Besides, no dynamic part alloy can withstand this temperature. I think they also try to stay between 1300 to 1600 ° maximum.

No friend!
It's good 2600 ° C and compressed air at 200bar after 8 stages of compression in the combustion chamber, I was blown to learn recently from a specialist in reactor maintenance in Orly

He showed me the photos of the metal surfaces covered with ceramic and pierced with small holes for the injection of air which is used to form a protective layer

For the acidity of the water, a stainless steel pot should do the trick

[Flytox]

Hello Capt_Maloche

No friend!
It's good 2600 ° C and compressed air at 200bar after 8 stages of compression in the combustion chamber, I was blown to learn recently from a specialist in reactor maintenance in Orly

He showed me the photos of the metal surfaces covered with ceramic and pierced with small holes for the injection of air which is used to form a protective layer

Your "specialist" confuses the performance of Airplanes and Rocket Engines.

The pressure in a recent CFM56 is in the 32 to 37 bar range.
The 200 bars at 2600 ° and more is for the Vulcan and related engine found on Ariane. (Which it is not likely to see in maintenance at Orly)

In Snecma's research on the combustion chamber of the M88 (Rafale engine) it is a military application where they do not give a damn about fuel consumption and pollution and the 2050 ° K (2323 ° c) reached c ' is especially not continuous operation ...... moreover it shows on the life of the engine which is very short.

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... kM75ad.pdf





and also



To come back to our subject, for the stainless steel pot, this solves the problem of corrosion at the engine outlet ... but at the inlet what does the engine say to eat carbonic acid ??? There are quite a few chemists who have ideas, whether it is important or not ....
A+

[Capt_Maloche]

Voltage, I'm not talking about a single turbo reactor but a double flow as below;

Here is the central part of the turbofan


The turbojet driving the "fan"


A friend's response:

The temperature of the flame in the combustion chamber is of the order of 2000 ° C or the turbine only supports temperatures of the order of 1200 to 1300 ° C, in order to reduce the temperature, part of the chamber only serves to dilute the flue gases with fresh air.

However, the combustion temperature must be as high as possible, in order to obtain intense radiation. This temperature depends of course on the richness of the mixture
fuel (C7H16) / oxidizer (O2)

Which confronts the manufacturer with a whole series of problems, it is then brought to control the richness of the mixture in acceptable proportions and to protect the parts around the flame, which requires:
- Protection of the combustion chamber by air flows tangent to the chamber
-Protection of the turbine by cooling the combustion gases before the turbine, by mixing the flow of combustion gases with the flow of dilution air.

Perfect chemical combustion requires a mass fuel / air ratio of about 1/15, which is excellent for efficiency, but much less for the walls of the chamber and the turbine, so instead of admitting 15 times more air than fuel, we admit 50 to 70 times more.

From the point of view of materials (nickel and cobalt alloys):

Manufacturers use sheet metal alloys for the manufacture of combustion chambers. Hastelloy X (nickel + chromium + iron + cobalt base ...) can withstand average temperatures of 870 ° C and ensure a lifespan of 20 hours for parts without protective coatings.

Another alloy, based on cobalt with the addition of lenthane, the HS-188 (cobalt + chromium + nickel + tungsten ...) has better resistance to creep (930 °) and 2 to 3 times its endurance at 980 ° C. However, as its resistance to oxidation is significantly lower and as it is intended to be used at higher temperatures, the HS-188 must be aluminized.

The elements mentioned are also the basic components of the turbines.

[Chatham]

Your "specialist" confuses the performance of Airplanes and Rocket Engines.

Exact in principle it is more of the order of ~ 1500 ° C at the level of the porous blade turbine and 25 bars at the compressor outlet ... I have known "single" titanium blade turbines limited to 950 ° C
For the M88, on the contrary, consumption is an essential parameter, not for the economy but for efficiency (autonomy)

When the PSA-Renault water injection engine stinks of fish

[Alex 56]

Yes it stinks of April fish!

I wonder if it is not the cleaning lady of
at Renault which would have filed this "Patent" ...

See you.
alex.

[Flytox]

Hello Capt_Maloche

Voltage, I'm not talking about a single turbo reactor but a double flow as below;

The number of "flows" influences the propulsion efficiency, the consumption, depending on the use, the speed to be obtained etc ... but the hot part (combustion chamber and the first stage of the high pressure hot turbine) is made with very similar technologies and the same families of refractory alloys whatever the modern civil engine.

We know that the efficiency increases very quickly with the combustion temperature ... but also NOx and as they are limited by the regulations that "equalizes" the results that can be obtained on these engines. (Besides, the precise results of modern combustion chamber analyzes with temperatures are trade secrets )

A+

http://ufcna.com/LTO-analyse.html

[Capt_Maloche]

Exact in principle it is more of the order of ~ 1500 ° C at the level of the porous blade turbine and 25 bars at the compressor outlet ... I have known "single" titanium blade turbines limited to 950 ° C
For the M88, on the contrary, consumption is an essential parameter, not for the economy but for efficiency (autonomy)

This is why the gases are mixed with cooler air in order to cool the mixture, afterwards, it all depends on how well you make your T ° measurement. In this type of combustion chamber, a perimeter "cooler" air flow licks the internal walls. According to the person in charge of the engine maintenance service at Orly, in whom I trust ..., the temperature in the heart of the chamber would be 2600 ° C ... but I cannot find anything similar on the web pages

When the PSA-Renault water injection engine stinks of fish

Oh men of little faith we will see


To return to the subject, if the preheated fuel close to its evaporation temperature creates blowtorches in the combustion chamber of an engine but with clean combustion, why not apply to an engine what is done in the heart of the combustion chambers of the reactors, namely what I describe above, create a boundary layer of air on the surfaces to be protected, NO?
it's no more complicated than developing CAI engines that only work at intermediate speeds, not at idle or full speed .


And what do you think of mixing a little more volatile fuel with diesel to improve its combustion? for example 10% petrol?

On water injection:
Voluntarily increasing the T ° at the end of compression to release water vapor or water particles and improving the combustion of diesel will be good if we reduce the T ° of burnt gases;
The advantage with the injection of water is that one can easily modulate the T ° of exit of the burnt gases with the quantity injected

Question: what about NOx?

[Flytox]

Bonjour à tous

To return to the subject, if the preheated fuel close to its evaporation temperature creates blowtorches in the combustion chamber of an engine but with clean combustion, why not apply to an engine what is done in the heart of the combustion chambers of the reactors, namely what I describe above, create a boundary layer of air on the surfaces to be protected, NO?

The cooling air film is "easy" to make on a gas turbine. There is air under pressure at "will" leaving the compressor at a pressure greater than that of the combustion chamber. "Yapluka" guide him to the right place. (Cooling air between 300 and 450 ° anyway ...)

On a piston engine the pressure is very variable and find a reserve of cooling air capable of sweeping the piston to protect it from the blow of blowtorch, during the explosion and in full turbulence ... there is a device not obvious to invent ..... but who I suppose must pay a high price for the energy consumed.

The thermal barrier track seems more playable to me at least on the static parts (breech). On the piston cap the manufacturers do a lot of tests, but what is really effective does not seem to take the distance. Remember 15 or 20 years ago several car manufacturers said that the future was in ceramics ... they all came back.

A+

[Christophe]

Yes it stinks of April fish!

+1 or rather +1/3 because the patents are true ... you still don't believe that I was going to make false patents ...

I wonder if it is not the cleaning lady from Renault who would have filed this "Patent" ...

Did you at least read it? There are a lot of pipo patents with no commercial intention but this one is rather interesting ... I don't see what you are basing yourself on to affirm this ...

I remind you of the link: https://www.econologie.com/brevet-renaul ... -3435.html

ps: still more than 5 days to react

[Capt_Maloche]

Bonjour à tous

The cooling air film is "easy" to make on a gas turbine. There is air under pressure at "will" leaving the compressor at a pressure greater than that of the combustion chamber. "Yapluka" guide him to the right place. (Cooling air between 300 and 450 ° anyway ...)

On a piston engine the pressure is very variable and find a reserve of cooling air capable of sweeping the piston to protect it from the blow of blowtorch, during the explosion and in full turbulence ... there is a device not obvious to invent ..... but who I suppose must pay a high price for the energy consumed.

A+

Mmm no, a very small volumetric compressor, and some air jets in boundary layer without disturbance at the time of the explosion, that's all, when you want, you can.
(in the same way as on the motor shaft are already connected air pump, water pump, air conditioning compressor, power steering pump ...)

Healthy air is worth a little energy especially with this type of combustion, we can lighten the task of the catalytic converter (would NOx remain?)