Doping water Motor: thermodynamic

[Capt_Maloche]

We chat with Christophe about the theory of water doping and its applications
Rather than starting from the Pantone and the derived systems to explain the observed effects, we decided to start from our needs and to highlight the physical phenomena to implement to achieve controlled water doping.

This is worth reading (yeah, finally, IMHO )

my opinion concerning the explanation of the "functioning" of the Pantone assemblies : a small chart ecxel (theoretical, perfect gas etc ...)
[/ Quote] Edition of 26 / 03 / 2208 Attention, this table with empirical values ​​will be taken again later in this subject with more precise data

What is important to see is that over the T ° compression end, the higher you get closer to the T ° Natural thermal water dissociation

Diesel engines are naturally more predestined to water doping

perfect combustion reaction GO (nitrogen is not present)
C2H16 34 + = 49 O2 32 CO2 + 34 H2O

In view of the amount of water produced by combustion, it is not surprising that the recycling of flue gas (EGR valve) is beneficial, as are the blue flame burners that recycle gases (these gases are bypassed at high temperature). ° and recompressed !!)

Pantone perspective:
For montages especially gasoline, the temp does not reach the 850 ° C at the end of compression, the explosion ensures further; it is still necessary to help the dissociation with a current contribution to perfect the process.

The primary function of Pantone is an important heat exchange in order to use the energy lost in the exhaust and thus prepare "free" for the dissociation of water.

The second, which has not been demonstrated, is the generation of an electric current that might improve the dissociation of water

At worst, you can do the test by creating a potential difference yourself on the "reactor"

with these explanations, all what is more simple and consistent, the Pantone system becomes credible

The calculation of a reactor should be based on an ideal engine speed and suitable for routine use to select a passage diameter of fluids that do not lower too the admission to inlet pressure engine

Nevertheless, it is this depression and supply of thermal energy that promote relaxation water as noticed Christophe on his thesis bench.

The weak sections of the reactor promote turbulence, heat transfer, overheating, and who knows, producing an induced current.

The presence of an ionized solution (acidic or basic water) can undoubtedly generate displacements of electrons favorable to the dissociation of the water, especially when one knows that the water is not electrically neutral [/ quote ]

[quote = "response to Christophe"] These are figures that highlight the impact of each parameter, it does not change much with 200 ° C

what is important is to raise the highest possible T ° at the end of compression before the explosion, it will be as much "work" gained for the dissociation

T ° yes, but for now keep in mind the GO ratio of fuel to air 1g 30g allowing the explosion of GO without sparking in air brought to 600 ° C simply because of the compression.
Replaces a portion of the water by gas oil, and the ratio is still valid.

For this warm air 80 ° C taken from the cooling system + steam production on the exhaust sufficient to significantly increase the T ° in the cylinder, but the overall performance and that is what interest us fact

A 2l DCI engine turning 2000tr / min full load pump us around 33 L / s with constant pressure or 1.6 bar area 52l / s air to P atm.

or, environs Air 52g per second or 187KG / h or 187m3 / h
Fuel we 1.8g / s or 6.5Kg / h

[Capt_Maloche]

ps: I do not even understand your calculation at the end of compression ... do the .xls and look at mine

It is a simple theoretical computation of end of compression PV / T = Cte
nevertheless just in a perfect setting

Engineers do what it takes to reach 600 ° C
the faster the compression, the less the walls lose at the instant of the explosion

[Capt_Maloche]

Basically, what is important to remember is that there are many ways to separate the water, and we will remember 2 on a vehicle

- Thermally high T °
- Electrically

and again, the one that interests us the most:
- With a combination of 2 in a cycle: thermal(basic exchanger) /electric/thermal(active, "plasma" due to the explosion) proposed by the pantone

Energetically speaking, the fact of changing the state of water to steam is in principle the most energy intensive, remains to "electrolyze" as it is to know where we are going.

We will have to take measurements with our cocotes minutes to see how to "electrolyze" or dissociate the water vapor and how much it costs us energy

in principle much less than conventional electrolysis,
have to check volunteers?

[Christophe]

I do not think we need to talk about DISSOCIATION because there is very little chance that it will happen except in the combustion chamber (and it's not new).

Otherwise I changed the title of the subject and I add my .xls on the returns:

https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... akxZiD.xls

[Capt_Maloche]

We know how to electrolyze water in aqueous phase and know the constraints as well as the yields. We also know that the hotter the water (stirred molecules) the better the yield.

What about the vapor phase, at a much higher energy level?
knowing that the vaporization is carried out with lost energy, how and how to dissociate 2.H2O in 2.H2 + O2?

Who can answer?

Regarding your xls, I had not seen the 2 tabs gasoline and diesel at the bottom of the page, and I did not understand why you insisted so much on a page with an empty board

Yes, then your gamma factor is Cp / Cv, which is to say that the more molecules are placed in the same volume, the more we have the rendment (law of Palisse): ratio of gases to pressure

[Capt_Maloche]

I am blah ... an electrolysis is supposed to completely dissociate water ... which is not the case with water doping ... at least in the "reactor" ...

You have too many topics to watch for! ...
you speak about electrification of water vapor
Who tells you that a current / electric field in the steam could not complete an electrolysis reaction?



Since I am equipped with a clio 1.5 DCI, I will be able to play with

This vehicle is new, I just made 2 full and the cons is stable at 5.1 l / 100

I will start by removing the air hose to get air behind the radiator

What is the risk of burning if I preheat my new air at 80 ° C? The turbo?

Then I will think about the design of a steam production

At first, I am simply considering an injection of "vaporized" water with ultra sound modules, I should be able to produce around 2kg / h. http://www.twenga.fr/offre/69127601.html hum, the bigger ones make 0.5l / h
if my new air enters at 80 ° C, it will be around 140 ° C after the turbo, and with a compression ratio of 22 gives value brute end compression 3000 ° C instantaneous (surely less, but of the order of 2500 ° C) in principle relatively close to thermal cracking, will the flame of the explosion do the rest?

[Christophe]

Uh, is not there a subject with your last message?

Otherwise I do not think it is necessary and we can compare an electrolysis (electric so) with the ionization that can occur in the reactor ...

[Capt_Maloche]

Grrr! it has softened the bulb to stay ouaibmaster in recent years

It is not a question of comparing, but the question is, since we are trying to find out what is going on in the reactor, and you are all talking about the "electrification" of water vapor, to check if a current of a nature to be determined can complete a phase of transformation of water vapor into H2 or something else

And then, I don't see why you refute the idea of ​​a dissociation, even partial, in the so-called "reactor", or of an ionization, who knows?

You're ready to talk about plasmas, vortexes, ionization and induced power generation and you do not even want to consider much simpler operations?

start at the beginning and check the basic options before venturing into alieno-discrediting conjectures

[Other]

Hello
Without boarding a 100% panton there are very few in circulation on cars so practically no Feeed back


I look at the numbers for water doping
In my case the reactor output varies from 130c to 200c rarely more.
It downstream 1,2 liters of water at 100km, the duct that brings what comes out of the reactor makes internal 12mm the duct air intake motor makes 62mmm
I think that the flow from the reactor is relatively low compare to the volume of air swallowed, so relative influence on the air temperature swallowed, the output of my turbo not intercooler
I also removed the duct that fetch the fresh air outside to pull the air under the bonnet in the summer little advantage over the consomation rather a maximum power loss at low temperature a small gain on consumption and this makes doping more functional.

Some are good results with lower reactor output temperatures or around 100c, just look at the duct output of the reactor of some assembly are in rubber hose, I doubt what long support a 200c

That the water is dissociated in the engine is a hypothesis,
as other tracks, which remains to prove, but if it is the case one increasing the consumption of water one should improve, whereas it is the opposite (at least my report and that of the other experimenters) possible that one reaches the limit of capacity of the reactor, although those who made assemblies autos, multitubes did not obtain quite significant results, compared to a mono receiver.

This improves the combustion of the engine and probably there is a limit to the improvement of combustion, to increase the efficiency of an engine.
Improving combustion is only one factor among the others, there is the transfer of less heat possible in the exhaust and in the cooling water.
use the best relaxation (not just a water hammer at the top)
and halfway the piston stroke nothing.
Decrease the energy absorbed for compression (which goes against swallowing hot air)
One thing is sure, black soot in combustion chambers in a diesel is a sign of poor combustion,
Minimal thing in an explosion engine
and also in a domestic burner or a modern reactor turbine

Some big real diesel approaches their yield of 50% because it works in diesel, not our small diesel it works in mixed diesel, something which is between engine explosion,
The new diesel cars are trying to get closer to the real diesel cycle.

A wise water doping, transforms our engine into real diesel, I think that when we will reach a yield close to 50% the limit of this sytéme will be reached.

Nothing mysterious just running our engine like real diesel


Andre

[Capt_Maloche]

Decrease the energy absorbed for compression (which goes against swallowing hot air)
One thing is sure, black soot in combustion chambers in a diesel is a sign of poor combustion,

Well, no, if the air is warmer, so less dense and easier to compress

we'll get there, with the method