Nuclear Phaseout? To do what? Bad debate ...

[Did67]

So to say: "can we do without nuclear power" is to say "are you ready to pay 2 or 3 times more for your electricity from tomorrow?" In other words: "for the same bill, are you ready to divide your electricity consumption by 2 or 3?"

Well I bet that said like that, there would immediately be a lot less anti nuclear in France ... When we see like the French slow down as soon as there is an increase of 2 or 3% of electricity. ..so 100 or 200%?

1) You are right to ask the question like that!

2) You should even say: if we are 50% convinced that we must get out of nuclear power (for x reason, including a "dictatorial" system where opacity reigns, which Japan has shown once again) , we need to reduce our consumption by 30 or 40%. With 50% of French people reducing their electricity consumption by 30 or 40% in a sustainable manner, that means 20% less sales: EdF will no longer be able to finance investments in new EPRs; Edf will be forced to close the old nuclear cuckoo clocks, the refurbishment of which will be too costly to him!

No need to argue. Act.

3) If in addition there are a few to invest, even if profitability is a subject of discussion, in PV, EdF will have to buy, and the residual demand will only be stopgap, incompatible with nucleiare! For example, all those who were going to put € 17 in a new car ... [this is not my case]

So what are we waiting for ???

Other point :

Seen in the German reality, the expert "macro-economist of energies" advising Angela Mrekle - therefore "on the right" - on a program of the German regional channel WDR (economic magazine).

Explain that until 2025, with the acceleration of the exit announced (finally, the return to the old plan of the social-ecologists, slowed down at first by Mrekel, then canceled in the face of the regional elections against the background of Fukushima), prices were going to go up again.

But then, once the bulk of the investment is made, since the "fuel" (wind, sun) is free, Germany will have an economic advantage over other oil / gas or nuclear-based countries (including maintenance will become more and more expensive; fuel too). So from 2025, on a 2025-2050 projection, Germany would have cheaper electrical energy!

Finally, mentioned that the equilibrium cost price could, with the new PV cells already existing in the laboratories, stabilize at around 0,25 to 0,3 € per kWh ...

So yes, I'm thinking about:

- a drastic "compression" of my electricity consumption (after the hunt for fossil CO² and particles, which had occupied me a little too much, Fukushima motivated me)

- consider producing PV

If I were millions ....

[Remundo]

Did67 and Christophe, you are right.

Now we have to put the cost of kWh into perspective.

For a household of 3 people consuming 4000 kWh year round.

Paid at 10 cts, 400 €

at 20 cts (cost of PV for large power plant on the ground): € 800

Reduced to the month, the additional cost of renewable energy is 400/12 = 33 €

and per person, 11 € / month, by reducing the waste a little, it can make less than 10 € / month of additional cost.

is less than the price of teleconference subscriptions and other pompafric.com phones

Furthermore, this money will remain in France, and it will be reinvested there. It is very different from the G € of currencies that go abroad for minerals and fossil hydrocarbons ...

Which G € allow some profiteers unable to exploit their own resources to come and order from us by buying our best buildings or by interfering in the share capital of our strategic companies

@+

[Gaston]

is less than the price of teleconference subscriptions and other pompafric.com phones

Okay with you

Furthermore, this money will remain in France, and it will be reinvested there. It is very different from the G € of currencies that go abroad for minerals and fossil hydrocarbons ...

There, on the other hand, it is less obvious. With the majority of photovoltaic panel producers located in China, construction of large PV power plants will likely begin with a massive outflow of capital

[HS] This is why I find that it would be better to subsidize the production of local PV panel producers, making it possible to lower the price, rather than subsidize the kWh producers who buy the panels abroad ...
But it is prohibited by European rules [/ HS]

[Remundo]

Hello Gaston,

The myth of Chinese signs resembles that of the Polish plumber.

The majority of German, Japanese and French signs have been installed. And it's not as dry a loss of currency as it is for ore or fuels consumed all the time, because the panels produce , for 20 to 30 years, it makes quite a difference.

On the other hand, with the drop in PV tariffs and the government sacking of the sector, Chinese signs will gain ground.

Personally, I have no confidence in Chinese gear at bargain prices.

[Gaston]

The myth of Chinese signs resembles that of the Polish plumber.

In any case, I'm not the only one to talk about it: for example this new factory article

Whatever the case for past installations, if we decided to embark on a major campaign to build photovoltaic solar power plants, European suppliers would quickly find themselves unable to supply, their production capacities being limited.

On the other hand, with the drop in PV tariffs and the government sacking of the sector, Chinese signs will gain ground.

It is clear that an investment of this level can only be made in a stable regulatory context

[He Dottore]

PV, yes! But with what technology? The classic silicon panels have a lifespan of 25 years, but if I remember correctly, they cannot be recycled afterwards. It seems to me to have seen, some time ago, a technology which consisted in focusing the rays of the suns on a tower, in order to heat the water (impossible to get your hands on the article ...). And if that was the solution? We could very easily set up in Spain, so the major part of the territory is desert!

[Did67]

Well then, if we all agree: "What are we waiting for to be happy?"

[Leo Maximus]

PV, yes! But with what technology? The classic silicon panels have a lifespan of 25 years, but if I remember correctly, they cannot be recycled afterwards. It seems to me to have seen, some time ago, a technology which consisted in focusing the rays of the suns on a tower, in order to heat the water (unable to get hold of the item...). What if that was the solution? we could very easily set up in spain, so most of the territory is desert!

Mouais ..... it is super well known, PS10 in Spain (2007):

http://www.actu-environnement.com/ae/ne ... _2434.php4

http://www.fadedtribune.com/2009/12/the ... wer-tower/

http://www.reuk.co.uk/First-European-So ... -Tower.htm

http://www.solarpaces.org/Tasks/Task1/ps10.htm



In France, we had Thémis on the side of Font-Romeu / Odeillo whose bad tongues said that it was built to demonstrate that the solar did not work.

ML

[Christophe]

According to the live of the world: http://www.lemonde.fr/japon/article/201 ... 92975.html

13h

Two contradictory polls on the exit from nuclear are published Monday. The first, ordered by EDF from TNS Sofres, is published by Les Echos on Monday, 55% of French people say they are "not in favor" of "the request of environmentalists to abandon nuclear electricity production in France", against 42% who are there favorable. According to an Ifop poll, conducted at the request of EELV and obtained by AFP, 70% of French people say they are in favor of phasing out nuclear power: 51% for a gradual shutdown at 25 or 30 years old and 19% for immediate exit. 30%, on the other hand, want France "to continue its nuclear program and build new plants".

... or how to make say what you want in a survey ... you said: manipulation?

[Cuicui]

When I said that I was right, it was of course a touch of irony on my part ... to contradict what I said above.

I understood. I'm teasing ...

To come back to the debate, I think it is useless to argue about the facts, but simply to compare the supporting advantages and disadvantages of the different technologies, and above all to arbitrate this competition based on the Total Environmental Cost and not on the CAC 40 ...

It is precisely for this reason that I cited the technology of hydrogen-boron fusion which does not pollute, uses cheap fuels, produces helium, works even if there is no sun or wind, and complements in my opinion direct solar energy (thermal, photovoltaic) and indirect solar (wind, hydro, biomass). The environmental cost of this sector can only be specified after sufficient studies, still not launched.