Electromagnetic disturbances

[Chaboum]

Hello,

I have been looking for several months to solve a problem in my installation:
it's been a year, I installed 1 solar water heater, and a new boiler (in a room that we will call boiler room) Or in this room, all the values ​​returned by all the T ° probes are incoherent, bizarre.

Example1: solar water heater

T ° on the roof: 73 °
Tank inlet temperature: 48
the pumps start

qq dry + late:
Roof temperature: 74 °
Balloon inlet temperature: 64 °

qq dry + late:
Roof temperature: 74 °
Balloon inlet temperature: 57 °

short and there stops the pumps because the T ° in balloon inlet is too cold.

While the temperature on the roof has not really dropped !!

Example2: boiler

T ° outdoor probe:
by -4 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 0 °
by 15 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 15 °

this is pretty much what happens as weird value for the outdoor sensor. This is not a calibration problem, because this difference in T ° varies as a function of the external T °.

Indoor temperature sensor temperature:

it returns values ​​that are just as bizarre, but with smaller deviations, except 1 time: she said at the regul 21.5 ° when it was 16 ° !!! suddenly the boiler did not start, and it was one morning when it got up !!!
Notes for this room sensor:
it tends to oscillate constantly: 19.5 19.8 20.1 19.5 19.8 20.1 etc etc without reason, without movement of air in the room ....

I specify that the regulated thermostat link is digital, so no false contact to look for: it works or not.

Example 3: freezer
but maybe has nothing to do !! it's just an observation, an observation:

freezer, cold ventilated with T ° display which tells me -18 °, or by measuring with several other thermometers in various places inside, I have -24 ° (still 6 ° difference !!)

then is it the same problem ?? linked ???

I don't know where to look ....

some have told me to wire my probes with shielded cable (why not, that does not prevent that I have a shit in my network not? where does it come from? it is he whom I would like to delete? way to find it this problem ??

Yes my probe cables run along power cables, but the installers told me that they do this on all their boilers, water heaters ... and that they never had a problem.

so to all those who have leads, ideas for FIND the problem ...

please

[nlc]

Hello,

Let's try to see that!

Example1: solar water heater

T ° on the roof: 73 °
Tank inlet temperature: 48
the pumps start

qq dry + late:
Roof temperature: 74 °
Balloon inlet temperature: 64 °

qq dry + late:
Roof temperature: 74 °
Balloon inlet temperature: 57 °

short and there stops the pumps because the T ° in balloon inlet is too cold.

While the temperature on the roof has not really dropped !!

So in conclusion the temperature on the roof seems good is stable, while that at the inlet of the balloon is unstable. Watch where the wires leading to these 2 temperature probes go to reach the controller, they probably should not go in the same place, and the roof sensor wire does not seem to be disturbed.
If not, what length of wire do you have between the central unit and the roof sensor and between the central unit and the tank inlet sensor?

Example2: boiler

T ° outdoor probe:
by -4 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 0 °
by 15 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 15 °

this is pretty much what happens as weird value for the outdoor sensor. This is not a calibration problem, because this difference in T ° varies as a function of the external T °.

There I would rather look for a calibration problem! Because calibrating does not necessarily mean setting an offset. Depending on the sensor, calibrating can also consist in adjusting the linearity coefficients.

Indoor temperature sensor temperature:

it returns values ​​that are just as bizarre, but with smaller deviations, except 1 time: she said at the regul 21.5 ° when it was 16 ° !!! suddenly the boiler did not start, and it was one morning when it got up !!!
Notes for this room sensor:
it tends to oscillate constantly: 19.5 19.8 20.1 19.5 19.8 20.1 etc etc without reason, without movement of air in the room ....

I specify that the regulated thermostat link is digital, so no false contact to look for: it works or not.

This is typically a parasite problem: the values ​​are unstable in very short time intervals.
But can you describe the mounting of this temperature sensor? Is that the sensor that is integrated into the display / adjustment box located in the house? Or is it a simple sensor that is wired to the controller?

Example 3: freezer
but maybe has nothing to do !! it's just an observation, an observation:

freezer, cold ventilated with T ° display which tells me -18 °, or by measuring with several other thermometers in various places inside, I have -24 ° (still 6 ° difference !!)

then is it the same problem ?? linked ???

No I do not think that this is a problem, depending on the position of the thermometer in the freezer the temperature difference does not shock me too much.

I don't know where to look ....

some have told me to wire my probes with shielded cable (why not, that does not prevent that I have a shit in my network not? where does it come from? it is he whom I would like to delete? way to find it this problem ??

The simplest technique is to have probes similar to yours and connect them directly to the central instead of the others, with a very short wire, to see if your temperatures are still super fluctuating.

Yes my probe cables run along power cables, but the installers told me that they do this on all their boilers, water heaters ... and that they never have a problem.

Maybe we just never told them about the problem

[Alain G]

Hi Chaboum!

There is not a place where he wound the wires to create a coil which would take the armature of the AC by chance, otherwise try to do as nlc tells you; test a probe directly on the display and if it works well run an independent wire to test your probe and see if the problem persists.

In general, it is either bad contact or interference that causes this problem.

Is the wire which connects your probe sheathed?, If so the sheath is it connected to the ground?

[Flytox]

In case you haven't checked it yet, tighten the lugs on all the terminal blocks and particularly those of your probes. An improperly tightened probe does almost anything.

We had an X-ray installation for a few years but it messed up from time to time, the computer or the generator crashed "for no reason".
Over time it has become more and more often .... and tense. The electricians spent an incredible amount of time there and never found this intermittent breakdown.

One day, we ended up dismantling the installation to replace it. And ... we found the problem. A transformer output terminal (380V?) Was in place but not crimped. It had not even heated or melted but was removed by hand ... According to the electrician, it was enough to make lots of problems.

[Chaboum]

Thank you for all your suggestions:

to nlc:
roof sensor distance regul = about 7/8 m
distance to regulator tank inlet = 1.5 m

chaboum wrote:

Example 2: boiler

T ° outdoor probe:
by -4 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 0 °
by 15 ° measured by various thermometers, the probe returns me 15 °

this is pretty much what happens as weird value for the outdoor sensor. This is not a calibration problem, because this difference in T ° varies as a function of the external T °.

There I would rather look for a calibration problem! Because calibrating does not necessarily mean setting an offset. Depending on the sensor, calibrating can also consist in adjusting the linearity coefficients.

it's amazing, so calibrating is also adjusting a coefficient ?? and it is adjustable on regul it?

chaboum wrote:

Indoor temperature sensor temperature:

it returns values ​​that are just as bizarre, but with smaller deviations, except 1 time: she said at the regul 21.5 ° when it was 16 ° !!! suddenly the boiler did not start, and it was one morning when it got up !!!
Notes for this room sensor:
it tends to oscillate constantly: 19.5 19.8 20.1 19.5 19.8 20.1 etc etc without reason, without movement of air in the room ....

I specify that the regulated thermostat link is digital, so no false contact to look for: it works or not.

This is typically a parasite problem: the values ​​are unstable in very short time intervals.
But can you describe the mounting of this temperature sensor? Is that the sensor that is integrated into the display / adjustment box located in the house? Or is it a simple sensor that is wired to the controller?

it is a simple thermostat sensor with a button to raise or lower the room temperature, switch to auto, manual, stop mode. It returns the info to the regulator which is on the boiler

And this is precisely what makes me say that all my problems come from parasites from somewhere, but Where ??? how to find these parasites ??

chaboum wrote:

Example 3: freezer
but maybe has nothing to do !! it's just an observation, an observation:

freezer, cold ventilated with T ° display which tells me -18 °, or by measuring with several other thermometers in various places inside, I have -24 ° (still 6 ° difference !!)

then is it the same problem ?? linked ???

No I do not think that this is a problem, depending on the position of the thermometer in the freezer the temperature difference does not shock me too much.

But precisely, my freezer is in ventilated cold, so if I put my thermometer above, or below or in the middle I have the same temperature !! 6 ° difference !!!! with what the display says. Isn't there a problem?



Wire of my sheathed probe ???? I do not know I do not have the impression, it shows at the end of the cable ?? in any case, I don't see any earth coming out of the probe cable.

Coiled wire, I don't see, it's rather direct as a path.

I'm going to try to check the contacts, tighten everything (any contact, everywhere? Or simply probes ??) is what I think: interference? but how to find them, locate them ??

[Alain G]

this is precisely what I think: interference? but how to find them, locate them ??

Well, just trying another thread.


A probe wire without a sheath is rather fishy, ​​isn't it?

Is the wire all at the end or in section?

Is it connected by terminal or the wire leaves the sensor and goes directly to the display?

[Chaboum]

the solar heater probes come out of the sensor directly and will connect to the regul. that's why, how can i do ?? it's all molded in except the end of the cable which is connected to the regul

for the boiler, these are wires connected by terminals to the sensors. Okay, I can change the cable.

probe wire, when I say without sheath, it means wire in a white sheath, then shielded or not ??? it shows ??

[Alain G]

Hi Chaboum!

I reread your post and after reflection I do not think it is a problem of wire.

What powers your control box?

Is it directly at 230volt or is there a power supply?

Can you put some pictures of the box with installation details?

[Chaboum]

Here are some pictures of my install:





does that inspire you ??

[Alain G]

Hi Chaboum!

At first I would separate the son of probes which run along the copper pipe at the bottom of your second photo, cut the Ty-Rap fasteners and see if it improves, otherwise check that everything is securely connected in the electrical connection box or your 230 Volt socket makes the connection with the different circuits to be supplied.

Are there other boxes that operate the system and are they on the same power supply or are they on another circuit breaker?