condensing boiler, suction cup, low temperature?

[elephant]

Christopher said:

There is no difference between the 2 cases that you quote: when you go to a store it's as if you summoned the seller ... the 7 days are valid in all cases but there are probably other law in the case of canvassing! (extension of time?).

That's what I say: according to Belgian law, when you call the seller, the sale is not treated as home sales, so there is no withdrawal period.

Articles 86, 87 and 88 of the July 1991 Trade Practices Act will be read with interest: http://mineco.fgov.be/protection_consum ... on_001.pdf

but it's Belgian law .....

I do not know what instruments of information on the laws you have in France.

[Capt_Maloche]

I discover the post

in fact it is only at low temperature that the boiler allows optimal performance, there is still recovery with water at 60 ° C, it is important that the burner air inlet is connected to a suction cup which allows the exchange, and ideally, it is necessary to oversize the flue (the famous suction cup)

but relativisons, if the radios are intended to be fed at max to the 60 ° C, it is still a strong annual savings to predict

if on the other hand it is rather of 80 ° C, one can ask the question and to envisage work of insulation, in any case, I would take to condensation, if only for the operations in mid season and the production of ECS

[Did67]

I called the heating engineer who guarantees me an efficiency in this choice of boiler despite the non-change of radiators, telling me that our winter average temperatures in South West explain that. ...

I arrive a little late!

1) Yes, it is possible. If you have a 3 channel control, and if the heating needs are very limited (well insulated house or very mild climate or both), the regulation will automatically lower the departure temperature of your circuit, so also the return temperature. So promote condensation. The colder it gets, the more these temperatures go up and the less it condenses ...

Do you have a memory of the temperatures in your pipes: if to the touch it is hot, know that it is at least 40 ° (except for having icy hands); "lukewarm" is of the order of 35/40 °; below 30 °, it's very warm ("cold" tendency) ... This gives you an idea.

If you have touched the pipes of the water return (exit of the radiator), you will know if what it tells you is true or blank ...

2) You speak of sucker, as an "alternative". The suction cup does not change much on the go. You can mount the same boiler in a suction cup or in a chimney. Do you have a casing, because with the condensation, it will still condense in your duct (which will be even colder, him) ??? If it hits your walls, saltpeter and "humidity" very likely.

[Did67]

J

in fact it is only at low temperature that the boiler allows optimal performance, there is still recovery with water at 60 ° C, it is important that the burner air inlet is connected to a suction cup which allows the exchange, and ideally, it is necessary to oversize the flue (the famous suction cup)

but relativisons, if the radios are intended to be fed at max to the 60 ° C, it is still a strong annual savings to predict

I do not share your optimism.

There are two things, not to be confused:

1) In the suction cup, combustion air and flue gases intersect, which slightly "preheats" the combustion air.

2) The heat released by the condensation of the water vapor produced by the condensation. I no longer have the data in mind, but the latter is considerable! Whereas the specific heat of the air is peanuts (that "recovered" by the combustion air by heating on contact with the smoke).

And sorry, but at 60 ° C I even wonder if it condenses. If so, at best a few drops ... At 40 ° C, yes, of course ... And the gains of "up to 25% ..." announced in the documentation, it is with low temperature circuits (floors heated - with departures at 28/30 ° and returns at 23/24!).

3) And there is the problem of taxation, mentioned by someone. So you can install a condesnation for the tax credit. Without large yield gains. But beware, the gas, it will pay for it anyway!

Finally, der der, we can have this tax strategy and then see if we can not reduce the circuit temperatures by changing the radiators. Strategies are not incompatible ...

[Christophe]

Christopher said:

There is no difference between the 2 cases that you quote: when you go to a store it's as if you summoned the seller ... the 7 days are valid in all cases but there are probably other law in the case of canvassing! (extension of time?).

That's what I say: according to Belgian law, when you call the seller, the sale is not treated as home sales, so there is no withdrawal period.

Ben no it's not what you / I say ...

That would mean that the right of withdrawal does not exist when you go from YOUR OWN CHEF in a shop?

In France the withdrawal period is in all cases 7 working days and in the case of canvassing at home by VRP it is simply lengthened but I do not know how much!

Well no matter it's not really the debate ...

Art. 89. Sales of targeted products or services
86 are only perfect after seven
working days from the day after the day of the
signature of the contract referred to in Article 88.

Uh I think it misses the article 88 !!!

[tigrou_838]

hello, in any case, the delay is minimum 7 retraction days, it is a European law, it can go to 10jours in certain cases.

from the moment there is a sale it is 7 days. even if you ask the seller to come to your house, what matters is the date on the sales contract.

[Christophe]

Well in this case it is not even the sales contract since it has only ordered ... so signed a purchase order a priori!

The balance has not been paid I think ...

[tigrou_838]

even in this case the delay is the same

the date of the signature is authentic

(I know that in France as in Belgium the rights of the consumer let a little go, see the cases in the European court, there are many about the delay of retraction, therefore non respect of the European law)

[Dany Dutheil]

To tell the truth, there was not even paid for since I forgot (true of truth!) To send him the check of 1 / 3 to the order at the same time as the quotation signed ... But we do not This is not the case since what the heating engineer offers me, to convince me of what he is saying (and some say it is plausible by our ocean temperatures) that it will condense except at very low temperatures (which I I saw that in 84 / 85 here, ie -20m it is to go to see facilities made there more than one qn and see the bills of conso ,,,

[Capt_Maloche]

I do not share your optimism.

There are two things, not to be confused:

1) In the suction cup, combustion air and flue gases intersect, which slightly "preheats" the combustion air.

2) The heat released by the condensation of the water vapor produced by the condensation. I no longer have the data in mind, but the latter is considerable! Whereas the specific heat of the air is peanuts (that "recovered" by the combustion air by heating on contact with the smoke).

you can, but you have to justify

with an oversized suction pipe and a 30KW boiler (80 / 125mm pipe diameter) there is approximately 5KW energy to recover on the condensates

In winter with a T ° ext. of -7 ° C and a T ° Max of heated air inlet of 90 ° C, the capacity of absorbing energy by fresh air is as follows:

P 30 [kW] = qgaz [m³ / min] x 60 [min / h] x 10 [kWh / m³]
let qGaz = approx. 3M3 / h

It takes Env. 12m3 of air to burn 1M3 of gas, ie: 3x12 = 36m3 / h of air

This allows: 36x0.34x (80 - (- 7)) = 1100W to increase the yield from about 4 to 5% is one third of what allows the heating body of a condensing boiler

this is not negligible if one takes into account a possible additional recovery at 60 ° C of about 5%, it is still 10% of won, against 20% maxi if floor heating network

and that is instantaneous, in principle the mid season represents the motie of energy expenditure of the year, which in a weighted way, represents a potential saving of 15%