Consumption hallucinating fuel oil!

[jiji]

Hello everybody

That's it, after a little research on the forums, I don't necessarily find answers to the questions I ask myself

So I'll ask my questions here! That's the story: we bought a house in Alsace last year. It is a house of "big" surface since it is 160m ² (except under soil and except attic convertible). It is of old design (late 60) and manufactured by its former owner who was mason

Concerns: this winter, it was relatively cold and we consumed a lot of fuel! Knowing that we did not heat all the rooms, we were not "hot" in the house which was between 18 & 19 ° => about 2500l of fuel went up in smoke
With the price of a barrel, as much to say that the bill is salty, and especially with regard to the ambient temperature of the house (I will not insist saying that my wife is a "frozen ass")

Quite quickly, seeing the consumption gone, I bought rolls of insulation (glass wool) that I put on the floor of the attic. Knowing that the roof is already isolated, even if it dates a little ...
The walls are not isolated either, but are of a relatively "significant" thickness.

We brought several specialists

- The masons wanted to isolate the house from the outside,
- The first heating engineer told us that it came from the walls,
- The second told us that the radiators were maybe a little old and that we would have to invest in new equipment,
- The third told us that it will certainly come from dirt in the circuit of the radiators, and that a cleaning was necessary, but not the replacement of the matosse ...

In short, I get lost a little )
The boiler (Feroli) is not too old (about ten years) and seems to work properly.

Also, we ask ourselves questions:
- Is it worth it to invest in a gas boiler? (quote from 7500 € for a condensing Wiesmann)
- Or go to the wood boiler?
- And what about solar energy? Could it be interesting?
- Finally, we think to buy a wood stove, at least to have a feeling of warmth in the large living room, but I'm afraid it is not enough to drastically reduce our bills, and it is cold in the rooms but hot in the main room ...

Ideas ? Suggestions ? Comments ?

1000 thanks in advance to those who can help us!

[Christophe]

2500L is not huge considering the length of this winter and the Alsatian climate (which I know well;)) My parents have a 250m² house built in the 30 years (so 0 insulation except double glazing) in Strasbourg and consume the same thing as you ...

To answer your question :

1) the wood without hesitation ... but it is necessary to find a regular sourcing that guarantees "correct" prices (and not only based on the price of fuel oil).

After choosing between pellet stove or log is according to your wishes.
I would have a preference for pellets (handling + easier, more dense ...) ...

I do not know where you are exactly but in Alsace it should not be missed with the Vosges forest nearby.

2) for the solar you can not hope to fully heat an "old" house in Alsace ... unless it has been designed with criteria bioclimatic HQE (and again). At best you will 20 30% savings .... but obviously the criterion "environmental gain" is not taken into account ... The solar is above all a choice of life.

3) Obviously a better insulation is perhaps the 1ere thing to do but very expensive ....

- The second told us that the radiators were maybe a little old and that we would have to invest in new equipment,
- The third told us that it will certainly come from dirt in the circuit of the radiators, and that a cleaning was necessary, but not the replacement of the matosse ...

That I do not believe for a moment ... These are purely commercial arguments ...

[jiji]

2500L is not huge considering the length of this winter and the Alsatian climate (which I know well;)) My parents have a 250m² house built in the 30 years (so 0 insulation except double glazing) in Strasbourg and consume the same thing as you ...

Exactly ! I heated "little" a house of more recent design, and the equivalent say, a 100 m² ... So there is a problem!

To answer your question :

1) the wood without hesitation ... but it is necessary to find a regular sourcing that guarantees "correct" prices (and not only based on the price of fuel oil).

After choosing between pellet stove or log is according to your wishes.
I would have a preference for pellets (handling + easier, more dense ...) ...

I do not know where you are exactly but in Alsace it should not be missed with the Vosges forest nearby.

In fact I am on the side of the South of Alsace, near Germany and Switzerland.
The idea of ​​the wood stove is good? But are there not strong risks of "thermal bridges"? I mean: hot near the stove and cold in the rooms for example?
Over here, no wood supply problems actually ...

2) for the solar you can not hope to fully heat an "old" house in Alsace ... unless it has been designed with criteria bioclimatic HQE (and again). At best you will 20 30% savings .... but obviously the criterion "environmental gain" is not taken into account ... The solar is above all a choice of life.

This is a criterion that does not leave me indifferent, even if for the moment, it is money first and foremost that dictates my choices ...
To heat the solar, it is not in addition to the electric heating?

3) Obviously a better insulation is perhaps the 1ere thing to do but very expensive ....

I'm not sure this is my biggest problem actually ...

[Christophe]

1) Thermal bridge: it is certain that some architectures are + or - favorable to the use of a single point heating (Kochelauf style)

But the thermal bridges remain the same whatever the heating mode.

2) A solar can be mounted with any other source of heat (even geothermal for example) ... You just have to work with a "good" plumber who knows his job well and knows how to size a circuit case by case. ..

3) As you simply have your boiler checked (burner) ? If the combustion is not well regulated, you not only overcompounds but also clogs the boiler and thus reducing the heat exchange with the water ... A simple visual control of the fouling or an analysis of the smoked (CO) would allow to discover this problem ...

[jiji]

1) Thermal bridge: it is certain that some architectures are + or - favorable to the use of a single point heating (Kochelauf style)

But the thermal bridges remain the same whatever the heating mode.

In fact, I'm just comparing to the use of an oil stove that we have, to have a little warm winter!
You leave the zone of influence, and you feel it very strongly

2) A solar can be mounted with any other source of heat (even geothermal for example) ... You just have to work with a "good" plumber who knows his job well and knows how to size a circuit case by case. ..

There is one who comes tomorrow for a quote (kitchen) ... I will take the opportunity to ask him if he touches a little solar ...

3) As you simply have your boiler checked (burner) ? If the combustion is not well regulated, you not only overcompounds but also clogs the boiler and thus reducing the heat exchange with the water ... A simple visual control of the fouling or an analysis of the smoked (CO) would allow to discover this problem ...

This is the first thing we did when moving in!

[Christophe]

1) A priori there will be no difference in thermal comfort between a stove with wood and fuel of the same power ...

2) I may have realized the sale of your plumber ... she is or my com?

3) And if it had been badly done? Or if kkchoz has "broken" since ... free energy does not exist but the disappearance of energy either.


By the way do you have an idea of ​​the conso of the former owner?

[pluesy]

Hello

2500L / 180 days is about 14 L per day, about 140 kwh
if the house is heated 24h / 24h it does (140 / 24) 5.8kwh per hour if we assume that the whole house is heated it is 160 m2 of loss by the ceilings + can almost the same thing by the walls + still a little by the soil, either to the nearest 400 m2 of loss or (5800w / 400) 14wh per m2 if we add -10 to the outside and + 18 to the inside ca make a difference of 28 ° or 0.5wh per m2 and per degree is a thermal resistance of (1 / 0.5) R = 2 is not so bad ...
it is true that if half of this surface is heated for half the time with the same volume of fuel oil the yield becomes catastrophic 2wh by m2 and by degrees is a R of 0.5 (it is frankly bad ... ) it is also necessary to take the efficiency of the boiler if it has a yield of 67% it will restore 4 kwh for 6 kwh consumed ...

the advantage of the external insulation is that it does not reduce the volume of rooms and the walls are thermal inertia (if the heat is cut the heat does not disappear instantly) but it is very expensive. ..

otherwise you make a wall 1m wide with straw boots all around your house it's cheap and effective but ... estetism question ...

[jiji]

1) A priori there will be no difference in thermal comfort between a stove with wood and fuel of the same power ...

Clear: I missed explanations
In fact, I wanted to say that we use a conventional heating oil ... And that in addition, to reduce a little conso without too much to peel the loaf, we use a booster heater oil, which must 3kw max (the kind of extra heat found in the supermarket).

2) I may have realized the sale of your plumber ... she is or my com?

In fact I checked, solar is not in his area of ​​expertise ... This will not prevent us from asking for info

3) And if it had been badly done? Or if kkchoz has "broken" since ... free energy does not exist but the disappearance of energy either.

Effectively
Let's say that when we had to reload the tank because we had almost nothing, we brought back the plumber to see if there was a problem ...
You will tell me that we must be wary of the plumber all that ... Yes and no ... Let's say that it comes from a distance because we have great confidence in him
But hey, we'll get another "local" as good, but it's hard when we know no one!

By the way do you have an idea of ​​the conso of the former owner?

The former owner is DCD ...
So no idea! But when you see the tank, which must have a capacity of 5000L it is doubtful that price of fuel was not the same in the 70 years

[jiji]

2500L / 180 days is about 14 L per day, about 140 kwh
if the house is heated 24h / 24h it does (140 / 24) 5.8kwh per hour if we assume that the whole house is heated it is 160 m2 of loss by the ceilings + can almost the same thing by the walls + still a little on the ground either at a loss of 400 m2 or (5800w / 400)

Hi the pro
I may have forgotten important information when I see your calculation ... You confirm me?
The house has 1 floor. The floor is composed of 2 "rooms" (rooms) adjoining the attic, 1 of 20m² and the other of 10m².
Then I have a "basement" (with radiators elsewhere, surprising!).
On the ground floor there is a room that I do not heat, + toilets ...
It is therefore necessary to consider 100m ² of heating, with vacuum below and unheated empty rooms above.
Useful ?

14wh by m2 if we add -10 to the outside and + 18 inside it makes a difference of 28 ° is 0.5wh by m2 and by degrees is a thermal resistance of (1 / 0.5) R = 2 it is not that bad...

But I do not know anything about it?
But it was not -10 ° for 6 months!
Let's say 1 months ... Then easy 2 months to 0 °, 2 months to 5 °, and 1 months to 10 ° ...
It's not scientific, it's pifometric

it is true that if half of this surface is heated for half the time with the same volume of fuel oil the yield becomes catastrophic 2wh by m2 and by degrees is a R of 0.5 (it is frankly bad ... ) it is also necessary to take the efficiency of the boiler if it has a yield of 67% it will restore 4 kwh for 6 kwh consumed ...

I do not know about the boiler? Where can I find the info?

Basically, thinking a little, I see that your top calculation was not directly calculation for my home but to give a base ... And if you look at my story with some more info " realistic ", we realize that the performance is" frankly bad "? ?

[Sat-going]

Hi,
an idea of ​​the losses in a poorly insulated house.
to give an example, a house with walls of 50 cm of limestone on 120 m square I needed a power of 18 kws with a delta of 32 without isolation, with the insulation to morme it was only necessary 9kws .