Is Logan greener than the Prius?

[Targol]

: arrow: Hello Targol!

Knowing your journey and your mileage, your choice is very defensible ...
This is my opinion and that of Eric Souffleux, very well argued on generationfutures

However it would be better to do even better, I think for example a used electric car reconditioned as found in the Bordelaise region equipped with a generator on board (ideally pantonized). I also think about the Twike mentioned at length on the forum...

As far as I'm concerned, I think rather like jean63 and I have my old 1994 and 1995 (less old than Jean's) trapanels.
But it's as much about financial choices as ecological choices ...

Hi, Citro.
It is clear that you and Jean, you have the best solution: the most ecological car is the one that is not built.
Now, my LPG has started to worry after 200 000Km (case of the gearbox, flashes repeatedly ...).
In short, not being good enough in mechanics, I had to abandon it.

Regarding the electric car or the Twike (which I know since I spoke to you about it here ), the 2 have the major disadvantage of only covering part of my needs: my car is also used to go on vacation with the whole family.

[bamboo]

Well, it only moves the problem: 2 is better than 50% or only 100% knowing that there is no worse in terms of wear than a motor that rolls little ...and indirect eco cost?

I agree on the last part: gray energy cost of 2 vehicles!
But on the bold part!
I do less than 6000 km a year, which is considered very little, since the average is 15000 km I think.
Still, she (with the original engine) approaches the 240 000 km.
As for the conso: 6.3l / 100. Not so bad, right?

The Logan are added to the existing park. Renault has not expected the recovery for destruction of R21 or R25 for the purchase of a Logan and Targol did not say he would scrap his Picasso if he buys a Logan. So instead of a Picasso with its pollution there will be a Logan with its pollution plus a Picasso with its pollution .

Dealers (Renault and others) are still bidding for old cars to be scrapped.
And if someone buys the Targol Picasso, it's because someone has gotten rid of an older car! I agree with Christophe: in France, the market is saturated: the cars purchased do not add up to the previous ones.

[Leo Maximus]

(..) Targol did not say that he would scrap his Picasso if he bought a Logan. So instead of a Picasso with its pollution there will be a Logan with its pollution plus a Picasso with its pollution .

Uhhhh, isn't that a bit "capilotracté"?
My Picasso is taken over by Renault and it would be ecologically deplorable that it be scrapped after 112 000 Km.

As for your remark, it is valid for all occasions, not just "low-cost".
Whoever redeems my Picasso may put his old vehicle to the scrap or resale to someone who will scrape his, etc ...

In addition, you must once again take into account the total embodied energy consumed by the vehicle. The manufacture / recycling of the vehicle are very far from negligible in history. To destroy a 120 000Km vehicle would be really catastrophic at this level ...

You ask a question and you give yourself the answer when you obviously never seriously considered the purchase of a Prius because:
- It's an essence.
- It is relatively expensive.
- You could not ignore that the Prius can not tow a trailer because the management electronics of the hybrid system excludes the use.
- Toyota is not a French brand.
- Etc ...

[Christophe]

The only interest in buying a prius is, in my opinion, to promote the search for hybridization... at the level conso nothing stupendous (a C1 or even C2 hdi do better than the prius), its interest is purely urban, so finally, the hybridization, may have the effect of to promote the use of the car in the city ... is this really a good solution? It is a transitional solution certainly ... but it should rather think about other modes of urban transport not?

By the way zavé vu: the "software" of the prius is the same as the Lexus of 400 hp ...

[denis]

to put the old ones to the breakage it will be more and more difficult to do doping !! just like the entrtients and repairs! these new generation are not that green! it does not poll any less but especially otherwise, new pollutants arrive by snow in the Nordic countries, if they are not looking for, of course the cars are clean! the catalysts have been recognized by "epidemiologists" much more harmful, instead of clogging the lungs and causing cancer like smoking, this leads to leukemias (sacred progress !! ), at the economic level do not talk about it
the increasingly heavy cars with lots of useless gadgets put a brake on performance !!

[Leo Maximus]

The only interest in buying a prius is, in my opinion, to promote the search for hybridization... at the level conso nothing stupendous (a C1 or even C2 hdi do better than the prius), its interest is purely urban, so finally, the hybridization, may have the effect of to promote the use of the car in the city ... is this really a good solution? It is a transitional solution certainly ... but it should rather think about other modes of urban transport not?

By the way zavé vu: the "software" of the prius is the same as the Lexus of 400 hp ...

The Prius has never been designed for the French market but it is very well suited to the Japanese market, a country of city dwellers, mountainous and more, where the speed is very limited (60 km / h on highway!). I know Japan to have gone several times and what we see is quite frightening, there is an incredible concentration of V12 in town, Monaco compared to Tokyo is a joke. So hybrid vehicles are certainly a step forward for the Japanese. Here, EDF and Toyota collaborate on a Prius project adapted to the French market, we talk about 1 2 liters 100 km.
A note: the consumption of the Prius is lower than the 2 CV or 4 R60. There was still some progress ...

[Christophe]

Of course Leo, if you compare at worst, the prius is necessarily excellent ... it is also the same that explains its success in the US ....

But I insist that at home, the small Hdi cars do better than the Prius ... that it is in consumption than overall balance ...

For the EdF and Toyota project never heard ... can you tell us more?

[Leo Maximus]

Of course Leo, if you compare at worst, the prius is necessarily excellent ... it is also the same that explains its success in the US ....

But I insist that at home, the small Hdi cars do better than the Prius ... that it is in consumption than overall balance ...

For the EdF and Toyota project never heard ... can you tell us more?

I absolutely did not criticize the small Hdi, nowhere.

Regarding the "overall balance" it would absolutely be necessary to take into account the reliability or we ignore it. I have done almost the entire Renault range and the "overall results" were catastrophic, it's incredible the number of costly breakdowns and parts to be replaced marked "Genuine Renault parts" (or original Renault parts) and below " Made in Indonesia "or" Made in Mexico "therefore imported from far away.

[Christophe]

The whole renault range? Are you VRP?

But if you compare the worst in the "other direction" of course

As I said above: renault is expensive (value for money), the look must love, it is not reliable especially on new vehicles and it sponsors the F1 season ...

Sorry to be not chauvinistic ...

Now the debate on this topic concerned a comparison between 2 car types, not a brand war ...

[jean63]

: arrow: Hello Targol!

Knowing your journey and your mileage, your choice is very defensible ...
This is my opinion and that of Eric Souffleux, very well argued on generationfutures

However it would be better to do even better, I think for example a used electric car reconditioned as found in the Bordelaise region equipped with a generator on board (ideally pantonized). I also think about the Twike mentioned at length on the forum...

As far as I'm concerned, I think rather like jean63 and I have my old 1994 and 1995 (less old than Jean's) trapanels.
But it's as much about financial choices as ecological choices ...

Hi, Citro.
It is clear that you and Jean, you have the best solution: the most ecological car is the one that is not built.
Now, my LPG has started to worry after 200 000Km (case of the gearbox, flashes repeatedly ...).
In short, not being good enough in mechanics, I had to abandon it.

Regarding the electric car or the Twike (which I know since I spoke to you about it here ), the 2 have the major disadvantage of only covering part of my needs: my car is also used to go on vacation with the whole family.

Case of the gearbox 200000 kms: it was an automatic gearbox? otherwise I do not see the relationship with the GPL.
Repeat flashes: replace spark plugs + air filter + rocker adjustment and it starts again.

I got that at 270000 kms: pb cooling the auto box because of the bypass of the LPG cooling system installed right next to the one going to the box.
On a manual gearbox, there is no cooling, so no relationship with the LPG.

Me, I solved the problem: I found a R25 crash for 300 euros, I recovered the manual gearbox; I installed the new crankset with cable disengage, and I mounted the box bl .. by the young garage in the area. I have boned what interested me, I have a spare engine and full of parts of which some already used. Best: There were almost new AR brake drums that were used on my son's R21 nevada (it was the same !!!) ... expensive drums normally.

A scrap collector came to get the crate and he earned his crust by selling it to the local "small cube maker". Everyone has won.

it's now 3 years that I ride with this new box, I made 40000 kms and LPG is still alive !! otherwise it was scrapped, but it hurt my heart because it is very clean and not rusty.