Generating electricity with a water wheel

[esgege]

Yeah! to know the couple, you go to your favorite garage and you borrow a torque wrench.

you fix it at the end of the tree and you adjust it to the limit of the trigger at which the wheel stops ...

[Papyrus]

Hello,
The big problem with all autonomous systems is regulation.
The diagram above works, with one condition:
That the power absorbed by the convectors is exactly the same as the power produced
Incidentally, the reactive power of the capacitors is exactly what it takes to excite the generator.
Experience shows that it is completely utopian.
If these conditions are not met:
Insufficient absorption = speed too high or runaway of the wheel (rare)
Absorbed too high = the wheel stalls
For the reagent
There is too much of it = the tension is blowing, and we are crying
There is not enough, the voltage is too low, the power supplied is insufficient but the wheel is racing
Simple solutions:
1-stay autonomous and do a regulation with a set of resistors and small values ​​capabilities. The resistors regulate the speed by absorbing the surplus of power, it is necessary a regulator according to the speed. The capacitors regulate the voltage and it is also necessary a voltage regulator / cos phi, which amounts to the same. This system was used by Leroy-Somer in his HYDROLEC system, which was not very successful and which, I believe, proved unreliable.
2- coupling to the EDF network, which solves the problem of regulation and, to a large extent, runaway (I repeat, not too dangerous with a paddle wheel). The speed becomes almost constant, and there is no need for voltage regulation
3- I heard about a much simpler system, a boiler based on the Froude brake principle (it needs a central heating system that can run on oil). But this does not prevent the problem of regulation, which can perhaps be obtained by adjusting the winnowing of the supply channel according to the heat demand ...

[Flytox]

Hello Papyrus

- I heard about a much simpler system, a boiler based on the Froude brake principle (it needs a central heating system that can run on oil).

Can you develop? A Froude having to turn at a minimum speed, there is a multiplier to ensure the training I guess!
A+

[boubka]

hello papyrus
mea culpa by reading again the book leroy sommer I see you're right

in fact the simplest is a DC generator (ex: machine motor textile)

taking simple convectors (without electronics) and calculating the load for which is lower than the power of the gene or by testing by increasing the load until a slowing down of the wheel.

it should do even with variations especially for convectors

well, I believe

[esgege]

Well ... that's how I saw the thing,

To not do too much stuff I put a real compressor instead of Diesel

[dirk pitt]

@papyrus,

the problem of regul and wheel racing, I think it's more for turbines.
on a mill wheel style wheel which turns slowly (we were talking about 20 rpm) the speed variations between "empty" and "loaded" are low. in my opinion, it is therefore much simpler.

[Papyrus]

Hello Papyrus

Can you develop? A Froude having to turn at a minimum speed, there is a multiplier to ensure the training I guess!
A+

Hello,
Obviously, you need a multiplier. More generally, I do not know many systems that can accept 20tr / min, with the exception of the hydrostatic pump which I do not see the benefit that could be drawn from a "small" installation.
This is a problem because the multiplier is expensive and, in addition, has a poor performance.
I do not have the reference of a manufacturer of these boilers; the info was given to me by a customer to whom I had sold a gen 11 kW and the capacitor, and gave some advices for the regulation. He was feeding a three-point electric boiler. The turbine had to be a Kaplan and he had made a regulation on the winnowing.
To illustrate the difficulties, here is what it gave:
At start-up, valve opening and turbine start, 1er switching on to 1400 tr .... but as the reaction was not fast enough, the turbine reached 2000tr when the generator started to debit, with a strong surge.
Then the load slowed down the turbine, which fell far below the speed of synchronism, which caused an undervoltage which relieved the turbine ...
At the same time the winnowing continued to open, it was ironed in overspeed-surge, lower at the passage of the 2è screen, the speed fell again and so on.
In steady state, it worked quite well, the reactions being dampened by the load. Clearly, there were not enough notches ...

[Papyrus]

@papyrus,

the problem of regul and wheel racing, I think it's more for turbines.
on a mill wheel style wheel which turns slowly (we were talking about 20 rpm) the speed variations between "empty" and "loaded" are low. in my opinion, it is therefore much simpler.

Hello,
This is correct, since the wheel "follows the flow of water". It is the voltage regulation that may be problematic, there is no need for a big overspeed for it to fly.
And I'm afraid that regulation winnowing has trouble keeping up with the fast play of thermostats.
A+

[Christophe]

Before talking about technical solutions (doubtful because the air is crap), you should estimate the energy potential of this project. Before anything else, we must answer to:

A) What is the power potentially generated by this wheel
B) Is the mill protected in the sense of heritage protection?

If the answer to B) is yes, you can immediately abandon this project because the authorizations will never be given, and given the power and the investments (5 to 10 € in your case to do something "good"), no need to imagine doing this "black".

For A) it is necessary to know the mass of "driving" water permanently in the wheel to estimate the engine torque. That is to say that it is necessary:
a) the number of "bucket or blades"
(b) the unit volume if it is a bucket wheel
(c) the unit working surface if it is a paddle wheel

I think the minimum power needed at a mill was at (the) minimum from 4 to 5kW but it was mostly in the form of torque. So a demulitplication will obviously be necessary.

I currently have a similar project but much more modest (if I come to 300W am happy): https://www.econologie.com/forums/tambour-de ... t6303.html

[RENVOISE]

Hello web users,

At what I see my progess seems impossible with regard to the wheel it actually turns to 20 rpm empty for the moment the mechanism does not involve anything and the wheel dips at the bottom I can tell you that it has to the strength because it took me the sleeve of my sweaters (I had two) I managed to removed my sweater with a lot of trouble and it is wrapped around and I can tell you it does not did not slow down (I still do 94 kg)
a +
PHIPHI