Call for a future without incinerator

[Philippe Schutt]

Hello Christine,
The taxes, as far as I understand, are necessary to compensate for the additional cost of the raw materials from recycling. You think that this additional cost is temporary, that it is due to a fledgling industrial process. I find that these processes are already largely optimized where it was possible, and the foreseeable progress limited.
I note that as sorting becomes more widespread, the tax on garbage increases. This is proof that the sale of these materials does not cover the costs, and by far considering the increases. It is easy to understand, the price of natural raw materials is ridiculously low. Sorting was easy at first. metals, glass, paper, these products represent interesting quantities. but by sorting more finely to recycle the other products the costs increase rapidly. To the point that even the Germans consider that burning using the heat produced is also a form of recycling!

[Woodcutter]

[...]

to tax producers enough on the non-recyclable packaging parts of their product, always more "merchandised" with piles of nesting packaging

I'm not sure taxes are the answer. Again, it's up to the consumer to take responsibility. Because overpackaging is also an extra cost for an industrialist: he would certainly prefer to do without it but he has to do it if he does not want the consumer to sulk his product. So, it's up to the consumer to change his habits: not easy.

Of course, but you know very well that the average consumer (let's say 95% of people) only looks at the price, with comparable "packaging" (including Branding).
If the manufacturer passes on the costs of the taxes, he will have to make efforts somewhere to keep his customers ...
And if its "packaging" is less attractive, but more environmentally friendly in terms of consumption of raw materials and induced disposal costs, it will have to communicate on it to keep its market share.
But frankly, I don't see why an industrialist would come there if we don't force him a little, since there, the tendency is precisely to multiply?

Education and "empowerment" of the consumer, without constraints or incitement on the part of food manufacturers, I have not believed in it for a long time ...

[Christine]

to Philippe:
I hear you well, and it is true that the processes are already very efficient. But this is not the rub: it is in the collection circuits, the distance from recycling centers, the inequality of lots, etc.
I take my personal example (which is not a demonstration but an example):
2004: in France, collection with 0 sorting. Household waste tax: 156 €
2005: in Belgium, where the sectors are well established. Tax: € 57,27 and a discount of € 1,50 for all the times we went to the container park (recycling center) - up to € 3 / month.
That is why I am convinced by the sorting. But for this to be possible, it takes willpower. One more time.


in Bucheron:
Well, I don't believe in consumer empowerment either. But it is like voting in a democracy: you have to keep pretending to believe it otherwise everything is fucked up

[popaul]

I find you awesome !!!

What does current waste do with it ???? NOT ALL IS RECYCLABLE!
you take the problem upside down: you must first install a sorting and recycling chain, and then, and only afterwards, you can gradually eliminate the incinerators. It is not by signing sterile petitions to remove the incinerators that things will change, but better to offer sorting chains

[freddau]

Maybe you should read the petition again

[Christophe]

Maybe you should read the petition again

Or rather simply READ it?

Raking judiciously is one thing, raling to raling is another ... (= pure waste of time)

I'm starting to get fed up with these behaviors that lead to NOTHING! Especially since yesterday, a great regular at forum (which I will not quote but which had more than 400 messages) told me of its desire to completely unsubscribe from this forum because of such behavior! I am very touched and disappointed of such a decision (and I obviously respected it) so here is my message:

The (ecolos) gueulards, retarders, frustrated of life who let off steam here if they do not do it concretely in real life and who only speak in the wind to often blablater with full of prejudices thank you for passing your way. If you're only here to get a bad vibe on the forum you are NO LONGER WELCOME!

Here it was my shouting of the day !!

[Woodcutter]

I find you awesome !!!

That is too much honor!

What does current waste do with it ???? NOT ALL IS RECYCLABLE!
you take the problem upside down: you must first install a sorting and recycling chain, and then, and only afterwards, you can gradually eliminate the incinerators. It is not by signing sterile petitions to remove the incinerators that things will change, but better to offer sorting chains

Of course, not everything is recyclable, but much more of what is not currently recyclable ...

I do not know who takes the problem upside down but you have to see one thing: an incinerator is not "profitable" (hey hey yes this notion ... ) only if it is "fed" with a good amount of waste.
There is therefore a real economic contradiction in wanting to build incinerators and also to say that we will develop sorting because, on the one hand the investments are not endless and we must choose well at a given time and on the other hand is to undress Paul to dress Jacques with regard to the destination of the garbage ...

The current logic is to want to incinerate everything, it is practical, people believe that it is clean, it makes the big French industrial groups work, etc.
At some point, you have to think differently ...
Especially since incinerators have shown that they can be very dangerous and that opacity still reigns on many points about their emissions!

[Woodcutter]

Christophe, you're not on the right post to push a shout!

[Philippe Schutt]

well done Belgium! with us, the more we sort the more it is expensive.
undoubtedly too many politicians who make money ...

[Christophe]

Christophe, you're not on the right post to push a shout!

Do not care ! It's the principle of a guelante right?