Nice to see members on TV (no, not this old pig)
When we find ourselves with 380V on a 220V network, it is 95% a "break in neutral", the neutral point not being connected any more.
http://physique-eea.ujf-grenoble.fr/int ... nce05c.PDF
Targol superstar! Targol on TV! Klaus storm and EDF failure
-
Capt_Maloche
- Moderator
- posts: 4559
- Registration: 29/07/06, 11:14
- Location: Ile-de-France
- x 42
0 x
"Consumption is similar to a search consolation, a way to fill a growing existential void. With, the key, a lot of frustration and a little guilt, increasing the environmental awareness." (Gérard Mermet)
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
OUCH, OUILLE, OUCH, AAHH! ^ _ ^
What I can say on the other hand, it is that it seems that the installations protected by a differential circuit breaker have survived. On the other hand, the old circuits without have all burned.
You mean the mandatory 500mA differential with the EDF meter?
Or a differential of 30mA that we add for more safety, especially in the bathrooms?
---
When all this is digested and understood, it would be useful to make an explanatory summary for the mistakes not to make and the possible precautions to take, when the phenomenon occurs again.
0 x
-
Christophe
- Moderator
- posts: 79391
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11077
Capt_Maloche wrote:Nice to see members on TV (no, not this old pig)
When we find ourselves with 380V on a 220V network, it is 95% a "break in neutral", the neutral point not being connected any more.
http://physique-eea.ujf-grenoble.fr/int ... nce05c.PDF
That's right, this was explained here by getting upset by an EDF agent:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x88gng ... aquit_news
Targol you're not going to like he called the mayor stupid!
This explanation does not make ERDF or EDF less responsible if?
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Christophe wrote:That's right, this was explained here by getting upset by an EDF agent:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x88gng ... aquit_news
Targol you're not going to like he called the mayor stupid!
This explanation does not make ERDF or EDF less responsible if?
Are you sure you didn't plant a bond, Christophe?
Here is the video on Landiras.
0 x
"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
-
Christophe
- Moderator
- posts: 79391
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11077
Not planted, read the first 2 comments ... starting from the bottom so ...
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Well, the whole thing is to explain completely.
If the neutral breaks during a storm, the Neutral wire is cut.
There is a rebalancing and the point N is found on one of the 3 phase wires of the line.
So in people distributed in single phase, they have a phase on one wire and no neutral on the other wire. So no power at all.
In people distributed in three-phase (3 phase wires and a neutral wire), who distribute the consumption in 230V, it should be the same phenomenon. A more or less good phase and no neutral wire. So no power.
The only problem would be on connected devices, operating in three phase (with 3 P and 1 N)?
Now if we are stupid because we ignore the rebalancing of the phases in the event of a break in the N, I don't mind, but still!
EDF overwhelmed, with all this work for technicians, we agree. But a green phone that would respond to comments from users or elected officials, should be the least of things…
Shame is on the phone line.
Shame on France Telecom, which is responsible for maintaining the short loop that it charges other Internet operators.
Also shame on the alternative operator, who has a contract with FT, and it is up to him to demand reinstatement with FT, and not to send the hot potato back to the customer. *
Cause of ADSL contract breach? But then the troubles are not over.
If the neutral breaks during a storm, the Neutral wire is cut.
There is a rebalancing and the point N is found on one of the 3 phase wires of the line.
So in people distributed in single phase, they have a phase on one wire and no neutral on the other wire. So no power at all.
In people distributed in three-phase (3 phase wires and a neutral wire), who distribute the consumption in 230V, it should be the same phenomenon. A more or less good phase and no neutral wire. So no power.
The only problem would be on connected devices, operating in three phase (with 3 P and 1 N)?
Now if we are stupid because we ignore the rebalancing of the phases in the event of a break in the N, I don't mind, but still!
EDF overwhelmed, with all this work for technicians, we agree. But a green phone that would respond to comments from users or elected officials, should be the least of things…
Shame is on the phone line.
Shame on France Telecom, which is responsible for maintaining the short loop that it charges other Internet operators.
Also shame on the alternative operator, who has a contract with FT, and it is up to him to demand reinstatement with FT, and not to send the hot potato back to the customer. *
Cause of ADSL contract breach? But then the troubles are not over.
0 x
-
Christophe
- Moderator
- posts: 79391
- Registration: 10/02/03, 14:06
- Location: Greenhouse planet
- x 11077
Gegyx you should put that in response to EDF's excitement on dailymotion ...
Can the neutral have to redo it from three-phase is not what is done in some transformation station? Indeed, if one of the 3 phases "kidding" there is a strong chance that the neutral is no longer ...
Can the neutral have to redo it from three-phase is not what is done in some transformation station? Indeed, if one of the 3 phases "kidding" there is a strong chance that the neutral is no longer ...
0 x
Do a image search or an text search - Netiquette of forum
Christophe wrote:Not planted, read the first 2 comments ... starting from the bottom so ...
Ahh ok, I didn't understand that you were talking about comments.
I replied to this gentleman on DailyMotion, but my comment has still not appeared.
0 x
"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
gegyx wrote:
So in people distributed in single phase, they have a phase on one wire and no neutral on the other wire. So no power at all.
In people distributed in three-phase (3 phase wires and a neutral wire), who distribute the consumption in 230V, it should be the same phenomenon. A more or less good phase and no neutral wire. So no power.
oh well ... that's wrong
take a good look at the schematic of capt maloche, your neutral becomes phase 2 or 3 and you end up with 400 volts "two-phase"
It is true that the phenomenon is quite frequent and very well known to EDF (besides their insurance works very well, you end up with all new stuff)
So in people distributed in single phase, they have a phase on one wire and no neutral on the other wire. So no power at all.
In people distributed in three-phase (3 phase wires and a neutral wire), who distribute the consumption in 230V, it should be the same phenomenon. A more or less good phase and no neutral wire. So no power.
oh well ... that's wrong
take a good look at the schematic of capt maloche, your neutral becomes phase 2 or 3 and you end up with 400 volts "two-phase"
It is true that the phenomenon is quite frequent and very well known to EDF (besides their insurance works very well, you end up with all new stuff)
0 x
boubka wrote:It is true that the phenomenon is quite frequent and very well known to EDF (besides their insurance works very well, you end up with all new stuff)
You sure about that ?
It would greatly interest my citizens, some of whom have lost all their household appliances, hi-fi, etc.
Do you know the procedure to follow?
For the moment, the mayor has sent a registered letter with AR to ERDF with a copy to the "victims" but will that be enough for the ERDF insurance to reimburse nine?
0 x
"Anyone who believes that exponential growth can continue indefinitely in a finite world is a fool, or an economist." KEBoulding
Back to "humanitarian disasters, natural, climatic and industrial"
Who is online ?
Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 80 guests