What points to check before work / renovation

[clown]

Hello,

New kid on the forum (and in the field of insulation also elsewhere), I would like to take advantage of some advice.

The situation is as follows:

We have just bought a house from 1994, South Maine and Loire. It is a house on a level, ventilated crawl space. The former owner, who had built, died and his son does not know how the house was made. All I have are the plans that show me a thickness of 38 cm exterior walls. 20 breeze block, 18's? ...
Side full (I'm not mounted), the pictures that I saw showed me a glass wool insulation (or rock) spread on the ground.
Finally, all windows are double-glazed and there is no VMC.

Before attacking an overhaul of the heating (initially, electric cast iron radiators, with thermostat on the wall for each radiator) The heaters resistances having slammed, the former owner was heated with oil baths on wheels ...), I would like to check / redo the insulation. At the risk of being considered a heretic , the ITE is not possible for a question of costs: the house has a lot of frontage and the previous owner had made some "aesthetic" improvements which increase the angles and therefore the walls to be covered.

The goal today is not necessarily to start immediately the work, rather to see before (by spending the winter) what are the weak points of the house to be effective. Precision (which will still scream in the cottages ...): yes I will certainly heat this winter with oil baths.

So after this long introduction, and hoping I did not forget too many details, here are my questions

How can I check (uh ... without breaking the wall eh!) / Find out how the outer walls are insulated? I wanted to look at a plug but I see only the box connection in his cast, nothing else ...

On the attic side, is a simple visual inspection sufficient to determine that the applied insulation is compacted?

For the crawl space, nothing special I think? Check if the tiles are not glossy under my little bare feet, is that all?

Finally, if there are other points that it would be useful to check before we can consider work ...

Thank you for your help !

[Gaston]

Hello and welcome.

Since you decided to watch before acting, I would advise you to take advantage of next winter to make a diagnosis with a thermal camera (we can rent them for not too expensive).

This is in my opinion the fastest and most effective way (non-invasive) to find the most urgent points to deal with.

For the rest, I leave the word to specialists

[clown]

Thank you for your response and your welcome wishes

Indeed, it seemed like a good idea to watch before acting (turning your tongue before speaking, all that ...), if only to avoid being set on fire (rightly eh, it's not a review!) then by coming to ask a question like "hello, I don't know anything about it, I did that, it doesn't work, tell me what to do to make it work "

More seriously, I had thought about the thermal camera but ... I read (here I think) that analyzing the results of the camera effectively was not necessarily easy. And then, to analyze the losses by the roof, how do we do if we do not have the helicopter license? It's like everything, there must be some level of prerequisites, right?

But hey, I note the idea (if only because I had already had but I doubted )

Thank you

[Woodcutter]

Hello PITRE and welcome here.

To try to answer your questions quickly (not too much time today!):
- for the walls, to see other taken, elec tables, bottom of cupboard where you could make a hole, etc ...

- for the attic, take pictures that you can see what it's all about.

Clearly, on a house of 94 pretty well built, you will not be able to win much without big jobs.

To see, then.

Otherwise, a diag IR camera made by a real pro of the question it is not too expensive.

[Philippe Schutt]

get closer to the ADEME for the energy diagnosis. they make a very complete for 100 € (total cost 500 but 400 at their expense)

after that you will know what you have and what you can improve, plus hints for the "how".

The ITE is a bit expensive because it remakes the facade. If said facade is good for a facelift, this cost should be deducted to judge. Otherwise, it's a little artificial, because it's "new" or because the companies do not master the process well. Then it has practical advantages, such as hanging kitchen units or a sink a brick is better than a plasterboard.
must calculate!

[clown]

Hello and already, thank you all for taking the time to answer.

Lumberjack, for the walls, I will go around but it is true that they are "clean" (decoration to be reviewed but the walls are healthy, there are no holes everywhere) and unfortunately, I have no no closet leading to the exterior walls. If I start explaining to Madam that I am going to make holes in the wall, just to see, it is I who will end up drilling! Well, more seriously, I'm going to search the water inlet side, I think.

For the attic, ok for photos. Must go up, that's all. (lazy mode sometimes).

Question pernicious (if I insist ): when you say that I could not win much without big jobs, I have to understand how? It's just to have the satisfaction of doing well and saving some of the resources of the planet, but I would have no return on investment or it will cost me a sweet but in the end, I will win in 10 years?

Philippe, ok, I note for the ademe, it's good to know. Thank you. For the ITE, as I said in the introduction, I will avoid because I have 8 separate pieces of facade (I have 2 pretty small square towers on the front half of the front, to decorate ... unmanaged but present anyway) so I guess it's like everything, the more pieces, the more expensive? And I do not even talk about remaking the roof in external insulation! 12 pans!

So, if isolation needs to be, it will be indoors. On the other hand, for the advantage of the brick, no worries, I am convinced. I even find an advantage that I never thought ... Since there is no metal amount, the wifi goes great!

[Philippe Schutt]

I said that because the "expensive" is debatable and above all is not justified by the cost of materials or the time of realization. And no, the fact that it's a bit choppy shouldn't have a big influence on the price.
Given the thickness of the wall, I wonder if there is not a double wall with insulation between 2. it was done here, more now because too expensive.

An electric house of these years is necessarily isolated, so either it sounds hollow on one side of the wall or it is an insulated brick wall or cellular concrete or double wall. it does not come to me any more for that time, there ...

[Obamot]

Yes,. Philippe Schutt and the others are right, "the devil is in the details".

Here is a smart thread that asks the right questions. And still amazing and shame that we zap on the basic answers which here are some ...!

What points to check before work / renovation

First, we collect all the plans, if there are any;

- and / or we collect the testimonies of the entourage (easier in a village where we know the artisans who work in the homes) and the former owners (when possible, and of course, from their own accounting records: item "installation planning" or something ...) on the state of the construction, the work carried out over time, such as upgrades, etc.

- then we do a "Inventory" general and detailed, with notably:

- starting with the foundations and walls on foundation (what coatings such as bituminés, what efficiency drainings, rising moisture or not, and of course idem for crawlspace under slab). Because if it is to provide a façade insulation, it will eventually be necessary to excavate a little to put Delta MS + bitumen coating to ensure good bond and cohesion with the insulation.

- then cold bridges (where are they? What impact inside, etc.)

- then the junction of the gable walls with the roof (idem, junction roof and cold bridges with including each floor slab);

- a careful examination of the roof!

- in passing we examine every time all possible air inlets, ventilation ducts, door and windows included from the basement to the attic!

- and of course, one notes the general state of the walls (inside, outside) one determines their nature, while seeking to make the list of already insulated zones, double walls and other galendages ...

- we also look closely at any neighbors, the wall / s next door;

- we take advantage of all these operations to make a possible metric surfaces, if we do not have an existing plan.

- Finally, we look at the heating system, with the presence of chimneys;

- do not forget the condition of the air ducts in the bathrooms and kitchen (with examination of possible humidity problems, frequent in these places) because if there is installation of vmc, it will often be necessary to provide a conduit passing through these Amha premises.

- and of course we scrupulously note all cracks and other deteriorations due to time, construction errors, or transformations and other renovations already carried out ...

- we also note what has withstood time well, that gives an idea of ​​the type of "choice that goes well", for the type of construction examined;

- after that we start to see more clearly, on the approach to take!

- we then also examine whether there are constructions of the same type around (housing estates etc ...) because very often, other owners have been confronted with the same problems, and it is sometimes a mine of invaluable teaching to know the mistakes not to be made and to see how, among the solutions sought, those which were chosen elsewhere, are relevant and have worked well (or not) ...

- we also have in mind, the meteorological data of the place where we are as well as its geographical orientation (rising and setting sun, freezing in winter, wet zone, very little cloudy because at average altitude or that know I: it can have an influence on the decisions and choices to make ...)

+ specific questions, case by case, depending on the type of construction.

Then we set priorities and a schedule of work, according to its budget ...!

Which determines, whether we will do some of the work ourselves or not (and according to his abilities, of course). But before, we will always ask for quotes, because it gives an idea also on points that we would have omitted. And then very often, if you do not master its subject, it costs less to get the work done than to make the home-made failed or inefficient it will redo, simply because if there are trades is good because there are good reasons ... (Of course you have to take real pros graduates and not burrows ... To have all the guarantees)

But right now, with the passive houses, we will especially ask ourselves BEFORE any real estate purchase, if it is not better to build a house of this type, rather than buying the old, because it is not really possible nowadays, to rehabilitate satisfactorily (i.e. transforming an old building into a passive house) because the bar of requirements has been set very high on the one hand, and on the other hand it must be borne in mind that fuels and electricity will continue to increase (or even to think of a possible shortage and an explosion of costs ...). The only cases where it is still justified to renovate / rehabilitate is when we have inherited, or we have already lived there for decades or that we have not been able to obtain an "Authorization of build "and that one is condemned to live in any existing construction! Or obviously that we do not have the budget to buy / build ...

Because the renovation / insulation of old houses, is most often a matter of compromise and financial dilemma VS the solutions to be implemented ... The question arises again and again: façade insulation with result at the top, or interior insulation with all kinds of potential worries (cold bridges, dew point, residual moisture concerns - such as inherent in the day / night switchover - heating costs not controlled despite all the work done, therefore an inefficient solution in the end, etc. )

That's why I like this thread: it is better to ask the right questions BEFORE, and above all.

[Woodcutter]

[...] Question pernicious (if I insist ): when you say that I could not win much without big jobs, I have to understand how? It's just to have the satisfaction of doing well and saving some of the resources of the planet, but I would have no return on investment or it will cost me a sweet but in the end, I will win in 10 years? [...]

A house built in the 90 years is often made of cinder block or exterior brick, with inside rails, LDV and placo. Often, the builder put 10 cm in the walls and 20 cm in the roof (the high level at least).

We can therefore consider that it is "almost insulated", not like the strainers of the 70s and early 80s ... And the insulation is not yet old enough to be completely dead if it is LoV ...

On a house like that, what do we do?

We redo the walls? That's the job! We must break everything, turn the rails, insulation and siding and start all over again! Infeasible if it is inhabited and in any case very expensive to increase the thermal resistance X2 ...

The roof ?

Possible, potentially less problematic than walls but must see, where the photos ...

The opening? Already double glazing, probably 4-8-4 or 4-10-4 in the air. So yes, we will be able to move to double or triple depending on the direction, to divide the UW by two with a great financial effort to the key ...

This is the reason for my opinion on this work.

For more refined estimates of potential earnings, it's a bit more complicated ... (but feasible!)

[clown]

Ouh la, between Bucheron and Obamot, the reading was long but instructive! (Philippe, I'm not saying it was not interesting and, as you'll see below, you've seen the construction right, I think.)

So, already, to start, thank you Obamot! A long time ago I was not told that I asked intelligent questions

So, to try to answer and clarify a little things:

Plan: ok if you want. I have a plan of the house, which I do not think is original, the paper is not used enough.

Surroundings: former owner who died, the son I saw did not live in the area at the time and does not know much about the house. All I could learn (notary, an old neighbor, the town hall) is that the "old man" never hesitated to sign a check to make sure that the work was done well, with good materials. .

General state of affairs: I understood some words, but not all;) Foundation? How do we check in what state they are? I dig around? In any case, the VS is not wet.

Bridges of cold: I will wait for it to be cold, because there, in 3 weeks, I rather had hot.

The windows are waterproof. We had a windy day, a lighter passed by did not move (well, not too much but nothing but a seal can caulk). Yes I know, it's not ideal.

State of the walls: apart from saying that there is no humidity inside and outside, apart from the classical traces (rain, wind, all that), it seems to be good, for the rest ... Uh, it's what are the galendages?

No neighbors.

No heating (well, as I said in the introduction, it was heated at the end with mobile oil baths).

No VMC, no ducts.

There are cracks on the interior walls, one on a ceiling in a room. Nothing seen outside.

This is not a subdivision, and the other surrounding houses were not built at the same time.

As for the question about the relevance of buying today from the old, rather than building ... There are plenty of cases where we can be forced. A mutation for example, where you have to be able to live quickly in the new geographical area .

Bucheron, Philippe, on the walls, I could see today (my dear and tender having made me do some work) that the walls are well made of brick, covered with plaster (which does not tell me what there is between the block and the brick because a brick 18 cm thick ... I still have a doubt!) And ceilings (which surprised me!).

The opening is well in 4-10-4, but it is clear that change all the French windows by double glazing of better quality, it will wait ...

Well, it remains for me to climb into the attic next we.