DARCOS reforms, National Education and Strikes

[Remundo]

Hi Flytox

I don't like to talk about that because every time (here it didn't bend), we get inside ... at best, we are accused of telling salads ... at worst ...

I'm not used to writing salads on econo.

It is very easy to realize all this by listening to the news!
- operation to reconstruct the hymen of African women,
- lawsuit to break a marriage because the woman is not a virgin,
- by looking at the statistics of the prisons (where the French of foreign origin are very majority),
- violence and dictatorship of boys over girls in cities,
- delinquency is concentrated in the suburbs,
- incessant media hype about positive discrimination,
- outrageous exploitation of all that by the right as the left
- growing anti-France and anti-everything sentiment in the suburbs (well illustrated by the tags "nike tout, nike la France"

etc ... it will last as long as the behavior of "discriminated" people (wouldn't some people discriminate against themselves?) will remain as they are. It touches on a cultural aspect, I would almost say of customs.

Among the students I had, many succeeded (almost 100% of my students joined a school, where a master in college), but, although being the best in their field, it was not without sweat, tears and psychology and conflicts ... Those who had the potential and the will are doing, for the others much more numerous (those who vegetate in college / high school by repeating 5 times), it is less gratifying ...

Come on, I'm going to tell you some crisp anecdotes.

I lived over 3 years there, in the heart of the city, where I taught in the Paul Eluard high school in Saint Denis ("the 9-3 in force") in a specialized preparation for access to professions engineers from the young people of the neighborhoods ... I experienced all the conflicts there (CPE, strikes and everything daily, which out of 2000 students, took place at least once a week (theft, carrying a weapon, , drug trafficking, attacks (fortunately often light) of teachers ...)

It was a pain for teachers, but especially for students ... Mine, involved in higher education, were looking for small jobs to meet their basic needs (room + food)... They were slamming doors in the nose ... At the sight of the quickdraw of some, that hardly surprised me! that irritated them, they became more and more aggressive in the boxes where they had the chance to present themselves ... misunderstandings, then vicious circle!

I talked a lot with them, I taught them, during my lessons (supposed to be physical) (a few hours were enough), to appear at a job interview. Wear clean clothes, do not walk casually, do not chat (local art ...) look the recruiter in the eye, say Hello Mr. Director / Engineer, "goodbye sir, thank you for granting me this interview and keep me informed of the rest ", be on time, speak simply, answer questions directly, and before the interview, reflect on your motivations and how to express them, etc ...

They thought I was coming from another planet ... they told me gently in their language "you're mitto, shit, it rocks too much," ... I told them "As you wish, try anyway, it's not very bad and it does not attack your identity, these are codes of good conduct. You have nothing to lose."

I ended up having from one of my students "this teacher, I love death". Supreme reward for a lot of energy given to these young people not really supervised in their "behavioral education"

Damn, No one has ever explained these simple little things to them, these "keys to survival for them"! What a misfortune for these young people !!

Well I was from another planet, (the central massif, the peasants ...) the fact remained, that in the world of work, it was them aliens, hence the systematic clash.

It has nothing to do with their skin color, but with their behavior. And finally, these tips paid off, they got the small jobs necessary for their subsistence (mini commercial / reception at AirFrance, fast food servers, etc ... !! Insignificant things? Not really: the financial key to their further education, and much more, to their "social learning in the company".

So in a caricature, we force the line, nevertheless, in a caricature, there is truth. Their difficulty comes from their education and their culture, from their code (they are also very subtle!), Far too far from Western standards and usual rules!

[b] That we continue to maintain Education in the suburbs, it is essential, but it is not enough: the people concerned must adapt to the rules of the world in which they want to integrate. [/ b ]

Another problem, I can tell you that in these high schools (especially the ZEP), it does not take so much more hours of lessons in absolute, but more hours of quality lessons: where the students stand properly, deign to pay a little of their attentionEtc. ...

It is also necessary, before making them biology, history, to start with their learn to read and write and understand French. Otherwise, they are lost forever and disgusted, obviously because in check everywhere.

Unmotivated, many students come to high school without school bags, or without a sheet, without pencils ... Some find it perfectly normal to be late, not to listen, or not to be silent when the teacher is teaching. And woe to the teacher who asks a student to leave ... Most of the time, the teacher leaves by rebellion from his class. Unless you have a lot of guts and intelligence, it was not good to be a pretty young woman teacher either: unmanageable with adolescents asserting culture. In short, they are not educated at home, and they pay very dearly afterwards.

I say that without animosity, I see, and I can see that there are dramatic human problems in the suburbs, and I also think that the solution cannot come only from the State and the billions (which rained), but of a positive attitude of all these young people and their parents.

This is called making concessions: the EN does a lot in these areas and so much the better! But the return is often delayed ...

[SixK]

Hello friends, you will manage to annoy me in the morning

And in case some did not realize it, France is extremely over-indebted and must reduce the airfoil: its first budget is the EN, and more generally the public service. In the EN, the only way is to close the pension / charges tap, thus reducing the number of civil servants. But as in return, the hours necessary for our dear little students (especially the sleepy ones next to the radiator) are almost incompressible, each teacher must work overtime, and suddenly, they earn more

Cutting into the education budget would make sense if the state were almost in balance. However this year the state will explode all records of spending ... With more than 70 Billion deficit.

So they may well try to win 2 or 3 billion on this side, but that will not solve the debt problems ....
In 2008 France will repay 42 billion debts ..... 42 billion in pure loss !!!!! against 40 billion last year!

Meanwhile, Nicolas S. increases from 170% to 200%, replenishes the pockets of poor bankers who have lost a little money, talks of bailout automakers, etc ...

SixK

[Remundo]

Obviously.

But in general when there is a fire, a glass of water is better than a glass of petrol, even if in both cases the fire is still there.

For the backers of banks and automakers, it is "immorally economical"

That is to say that if you do not support the banks or the manufacturers, "you might as well kill yourself right away".

They are the ones who did the bullshit, but without them, no savings (especially the banks: the loan is a pillar absolutely necessary for raising the standard of living). Otherwise it's everyone at home with chickens and rabbits and a cow for milk.

The problem is that 3/4 of the population lives in cities artificially. You see what it can give if you cut the economy to all these people (fuel supply, electricity, food, wages ...)

[bham]

Come on, I'm going to tell you some crisp anecdotes.

It was a pain for teachers, but especially for students ... Mine, involved in higher education, were looking for small jobs to meet their basic needs (room + food)... They were slamming doors in the nose ... At the sight of the quickdraw of some, that hardly surprised me! that irritated them, they became more and more aggressive in the boxes where they had the chance to present themselves ... misunderstandings, then vicious circle!

They thought I came from another planet ... kindly told me in their language "you're mitto, shit, that rocks too much," ... Well I was from another planet, (the central massif, the peasants ...) the fact remained, that in the world of work, it was them aliens, hence the systematic clash.

It has nothing to do with their skin color, but with their behavior. And finally, these tips paid off, they got the small jobs necessary for their subsistence (mini commercial / reception at AirFrance, fast food servers, etc ... !! Insignificant things? Not really: the financial key to their further education, and much more, to their "social learning in the company".

It is also necessary, before making them biology, history, to start with their learn to read and write and understand French. Otherwise, they are lost forever and disgusted, obviously because in check everywhere.

Unmotivated, many students come to high school without school bags, or without a sheet, without pencils ... Some find it perfectly normal to be late, not to listen, or not to be silent when the teacher is teaching. And woe to the teacher who asks a student to leave ... Most of the time, the teacher leaves by rebellion from his class. Unless you have a lot of guts and intelligence, it was not good to be a pretty young woman teacher either: unmanageable with adolescents asserting culture. In short, they are not educated at home, and they pay very dearly afterwards.

I have the same feedback from LEP teachers in Moselle (on the country side of Patricia Kaas)

[Remundo]

It's funny then that the Creteil and Versailles academies are the most in deficit in France (with Amiens ...), while the mutation bars on Nancy Metz (Moselle) are more than 3 times higher than that of Créteil ...

Here, here is a doc taken on the fly on the net, concerning English (typical discipline to give a good idea of ​​the attractiveness of academies ...)
http://www.skyminds.net/2008/03/21/barr ... n-anglais/
(sorry, a bit technical for non-teachers ...)

It is good that the teachers, compared to Créteil, more generally the suburbs, see lower difficulties in the other academies, right?

Obviously, there is always a "difficult" establishment which will make an exception to the general rule of a more lenient academy ...

Moreover, on this point, it removes the thorny snake that it is always the beginning teachers who go on the most dangerous "battlefields".

[C moa]

Well, here I am, you made me angry:

An example that appeals to me and which is illustrated by Maghreb education; look at our Minister of Justice, no matter how she got there, she got it; his brother (or brothers) are known to the police for drug trafficking; this example illustrates what often happens within this population, the girls study and the boys make bullshit, are left to themselves;

Bham how long did you spend in Africa in general and in North Africa in particular to have such certainties ??
I have been working for several years on this continent and very sincerely there is a very big difference between what is happening there and what the media show us. And in terms of education, between that of the village and that conveyed in the districts, there is a huge difference, believe me !!!

In addition it is quite funny but a few years ago, I heard the same type of speech (we still hear it from time to time) on the fact that children of framework (and teachers :-)) succeed better than the children of workers (implying some work better than the second). So please stop with this kind of bullshit !!!

@Remundo
Strangely, from the start the only thing you say is "young people are wankers, they don't want to work, you have to send them to the fields or to the building sites so that they know real life". But you haven't answered (or attempted to answer) any of the questions I asked .... This is typically the kind of reductive thinking that those who don't want to deal with the real issues have in mind. of the EN. You can criticize the spirit of a grenelle. It is true that there is a lot of discussion there but at the moment no one is discussing at the EN (even the parents of the students complained that Darcos did not want to receive them). As for actions, in general we can always consider that things are missing but in general there is a consciousness.

Furthermore, you say you spent 4 years teaching in a ZEP high school, I left mine at the age of 20 when I returned to BTS. You spent 4 years there but obviously you did not understand the why of the how:
- If you have kids who have weapons, it is not to scare the teachers or to boast it is especially to defend themselves from what is happening outside the chest;
- If the kids have shit to sell it is mainly because the state is not able to prevent this bastard from entering our territory !! And it is especially easier to stop a kid with 20 grams on him than to dismantle a sector. And for information, in general they sell it in beautiful areas ....
- If the girls are so well watched of course it is because of a misplaced machismo but it is especially that we fear that they will be attacked. I do not think that you participated in a punitive expedition following the rape of one of your friends .... In your world, we still think that society is there to protect you and that justice will pass. In the neighborhoods, violence is omnipresent, the school does not escape it and I am the first sorry but it is so.

In fact, for me it is a choice of society. If we think that we can save a banking system by putting tens of billions into it (by increasing our debt in the process) but that we cannot think a little about the fundamental reforms that are necessary in our education system, I fear we are off to a good start.

Unless the general moron of our country is a desired goal.

[bham]

Sorry Remundo but I'm not a teacher, so can you explain the bars?

Concerning the LEP of which I speak, it is Forbach and therefore the former coalfield and its suburb Behren, where it happens to cars to self-ignite it is therefore not like the whole academy.

[Remundo]

For Bham:

The higher the transfer bar, the more attractive the academy means, and the more seniority it takes to gain access.

The lower it is, the more repellent it is, and the more beginners hit the "hot" sideboards.

that's for the interacademic. There are also intra-academic disparities: For example in Lyon, we will put beginners in Villeurbanne or in La Duchère, experienced teachers at the lycée du Parc, etc ...

For CMoa: there are surely reforms to be made: I observe that each time that one is proposed (on the right as on the left), it is the systematic raising of shield.

I never said that all young people are wankers. I said and I repeat that those who demonstrate are (at least the day they demonstrate, but in general, not just that day), and not all of them demonstrated.

And I repeat that they are exploited by a few hypochritical adults, politicians and manipulators.

And I strongly reaffirm that these are just kids for whom life is still pleasant (fed, housed, heated, educated) who know nothing about the difficulties of the working world, and above all, whose place is not in the street to demonstrate.

You asked a lot of interesting questions, select the most important ones and we can have a dialogue, knowing that in this matter, the debate is endless as I said

[bham]

Well, here I am, you made me angry:

An example that appeals to me and which is illustrated by Maghreb education; look at our Minister of Justice, no matter how she got there, she got it; his brother (or brothers) are known to the police for drug trafficking; this example illustrates what often happens within this population, the girls study and the boys make bullshit, are left to themselves;

Bham how long did you spend in Africa in general and in North Africa in particular to have such certainties ??
I have been working for several years on this continent and very sincerely there is a very big difference between what is happening there and what the media show us. And in terms of education, between that of the village and that conveyed in the districts, there is a huge difference, believe me !!!

Cmoa I was never in Africa and I did not speak besides of the education given in Africa but well that of conveyed in the districts, sorry if I was not clear enough; I would also like to clarify that this is not a generality, certain children of immigrant origin being clearly better educated than certain French people of stock.

In addition it is quite funny but a few years ago, I heard the same type of speech (we still hear it from time to time) on the fact that children of framework (and teachers :-)) succeed better than the children of workers (implying some work better than the second). So please stop with this kind of bullshit !!!!!!

Well, I would tend to do the opposite.

In the neighborhoods, violence is omnipresent, the school does not escape it and I am the first sorry but it is so.

Violence in the suburbs and / or disadvantaged areas has always existed, there was when I was young, in my father's time, in my grandfather's time, in my great grandfather's time on the port docks from Nantes; Well, I'm not going to give you the family genealogy, the violence has always been there, you just have to try to understand why it is there today, why it is taking on such a scale (the media and society in general are there probably for something) in order to try to remedy it.

[Remundo]

Come on, I'm still going to tease CMoa !!

@Remundo

Furthermore, you say you spent 4 years teaching in a ZEP high school, I left mine at the age of 20 when I returned to BTS. You spent 4 years there but obviously you did not understand the why of the how:
- If you have kids who have weapons, it is not to scare the teachers or to boast it is especially to defend themselves from what is happening outside the chest;
- If the kids have shit to sell it is mainly because the state is not able to prevent this bastard from entering our territory !! And it is especially easier to stop a kid with 20 grams on him than to dismantle a sector. And for information, in general they sell it in beautiful areas ....
- If the girls are so well watched of course it is because of a misplaced machismo but it is especially that we fear that they will be attacked. I do not think that you participated in a punitive expedition following the rape of one of your friends .... In your world, we still think that society is there to protect you and that justice will pass. In the neighborhoods, violence is omnipresent, the school does not escape it and I am the first sorry but it is so.

In fact, for me it is a choice of society. If we think that we can save a banking system by putting tens of billions into it (by increasing our debt in the process) but that we cannot think a little about the fundamental reforms that are necessary in our education system, I fear we are off to a good start.

Unless the general moron of our country is a desired goal.

Outside the sideboard? So why are they using it indoors? I confirm that they very rarely use it against teachers (the case of Karen Montétoutain ...), but many of them ... to intimidate themselves and settle their small cases of traffickers for whom the non-payment of a bedo is well worth a sliced ​​intestine ...

Yet no one is forcing them to dabble in this shit!
In fact, who are the main producers and importers of shit in France? it's happening in the Maghreb ... in Morocco more precisely.

And the suburbs are the "number one" consumers, even if now, it is fashionable in all circles to bow down to the immense talent and zenitude of cannabis smokers ...

The African-Maghreb networks are among the most active in cannabis in France. Do not confuse causes and consequences

For girls who have been assaulted, and quite precisely, if the "little males" had a little respect for their sisters, cousins, girlfriends, they would let them live their lives as happens everywhere else in France ... But the problem is not there. The few assaults on young girls are made on the pretext that women must be subjected to men in African cultures, and we look for noises in the slightest teenage girl wearing a tight skirt or Tshirt ... We even burned it alive with gasoline in a local trash because she claimed her free will! (the Soan case)

I invent nothing ... I observe ... Sorry for being a little rude, but it's like that "over there".

In "my world" (as if I were living in the Place Vendôme), I had to rely only on myself to defend myself ... despite dialogue and psychology, more than once it was very hot in high school and outside ... and I enjoyed being a stocky young man rather than a beautiful enticing young woman in this environment !!

You're right CMoa, the rules are too far from those of the Republic in the suburbs.

Ah, I also wanted to say: we do not change a mentality, a culture, lifestyles with billions, even tens. For 30 years, we have made and maintain all the educational efforts necessary in these neighborhoods.

Paradoxically, the violence is only intensifying. The problem is elsewhere. It is cultural, with communities who turn in on themselves and who absolutely want to live in France fiercely opposing their culture and way of life to respect for the basic rules of the Republic.