DARCOS reforms, National Education and Strikes

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DARCOS reforms, National Education and Strikes




by Remundo » 19/12/08, 13:45

Hello everyone !

We were chatting about the challenges and difficulties of the educational world, but also of students, in relation to the economy ...

At Christophe's invitation, here is a dedicated subject and what we were telling ...
Christophe wrote:So for the revolution, do not wait too long ... Because those who scream the most it is the high school students against the program change it aggace me a little ... it's also a form of dictatorship ca! Remundo you who are teacher what do you think?

Remundo wrote:I prefer not to take a stand on this subject ...

Other than that I would like students to spend so much energy paying attention in class then learning their lesson as they invest in the political struggle : Idea:
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by Remundo » 19/12/08, 13:46

The following...
C moa wrote:
Christophe wrote:Rohhh ... come on, we will not denounce you to your director : Mrgreen:

High school factory grumblers?

Are students from other countries of the union as much on the street as the French?
In Italy, there were big protests a few weeks ago against the reform of the school system and against the Berlusconi governments. For other countries, No lo so !!!

Personally, I think that it is necessary to reform the school so that it is better organized, that it better prepares our young people to enter the professional life and especially that it limits the inequalities between the establishments but under pretext not to tackle the problem (I would be tempted to say of problems), we tend to level the level from below.

An example, in the industry, many executives or even executives have only one BEP they spent there 30 or 40 years. It was a practical, professional training that armed them for professional life and it allowed them to have a good career.
When I passed mine, we had around 16 / 18 hours a week of workshop plus professional theory classes. Of course we still had a lot to learn but we were able to work, we knew hold a screwdriver!

Today they want the professional bac to be prepared in 3 years on the pretext that the technical bac is obtained in 3 years. First of all, you have to know that this is wrong because after my BEP I took up a technical course and I obtained my baccalaureate in 4 years like the professional baccalaureate. So whether it is CAP-BEP + Technical Bac or CAP-BEP + Bac Pro, until now, we all obtained our bac in 4 years. Then, for me it is a great bullshit because concretely it means that we will remove 25% of the program between the CAP-BEP and the Bac, it means above all that we will remove 50% of the CAP- programs. BEP. The question is "will this diploma still allow you to enter professionally?" I do not believe so unfortunately.

I do not know how it works at Remundo but I know that some schools ofgege (especially those who make prepas integrated) say for several years that they think to pass the course on 6 years instead of 5 because the level entrance is becoming weaker.

Christophe wrote:Yes c moa, leveling down is very clear: just compare a copy of a BAC E 1990 with that of a BAC S 2005 ... I had already felt the difference (see annals) when I passed mine in 1996.

1) There is a big problem of education in France ... and that is exactly what the government wants to try to improve ...

I have not followed the case too much but I think they want to put modules (that's what I had in school of engineering so that has been at least 10 years in the post Bac) since the second. ..and it's against this (among others) that students moan ...

So moan to moan with each change I'm sick of this country! Y of the rattles more justified than others, this one does not seem to me too justified ...

2) I remember how we had been indoctrinated in 1995 to demonstrate against the young minimum wage in Balladur ... (a thing much "worse" than the CPE). We shouted, the government gave in. But at the time we did not go on "strike" and we had not blocked (or worse during the CPE) the Lycées as now ...

After 3 years of "unemployment" (in fact it is not because we don't get anything since we never worked) post diploma jpe tell you that I regret having yelled ... and that this law might have been improve things ... but that coco high school unions can not understand the economic reality of employment ...

But for young people is probably better off joking than being paid that 80% of SMIC ...

3) For the practical aspect and evolution of the career, there are 2 doctrines (of shit) in France:

a) Well done heads rather than full heads ... But by having well made heads, we get heads empty!

In other words: we may know better "reason" in France but we do not know much concrete when leaving school (and I speak at all levels of exit).

b) We push for the "higher diploma, siding" instead of the practical diploma. Are you good at math? You will go to university (even if you want to be a cabinetmaker)

Combine this with elitism and the quasi-sectarian compartmentalisation of diplomas (nothing to do with Germany which trains engineers "on the job") and we partly explain the economic and employment situation in France ...

Remundo wrote:Hello,

The excessive extension of studies for everyone is only the consequence of the lack of jobs offered.
And everyone wakes up with a hangover ...

The student having completed 6 years of study in "mangement trade, accounting and especially the wind "finds no job" worthy of his studies "," at the height of his investment and his talent ", so on and of the best ...

The entrepreneur sees a blanc-bec asking him a busy annual salary of 100 k € while he knows strictly nothing, except excel tables and beautiful speech ... A little light for 100 k € ... Even though in the bank, we saw more expensive for less ... :P

No wonder nobody understands ... From the beginning since the 80 years (roughly speaking), we never met the conditions for the creation of industrial jobs perennial in France.

We have screwed up the iron and steel industry, we have praised the tertiary sector (which relies on secondary education, have we forgotten it?), We have relocated all the time, we have smashed the SMEs of tax burdens and red tape. and legal ...

We sang the sirens of the immaterial economy ...

We are still living on the achievements of the glorious 30, acquired that are waning miserably, the latest illusions of wealth and comfort being provided by the public debt that explodes.

High school students who demonstrate are:
1. either morons
2. either slackers
3. either clever little ones finding the Christmas holidays too late.

The 3 points are not incompatible.

But they are not the worst ... there are agitators around them who are thirsty for power and who will pursue policies that are equally fatal.

renaud67 wrote:Yes, I had a lot of discussion with my father who was a teacher in CATM ... class (preparatory ie post-baccalaureate) to manual skills !! and yes it had existed because it has been deleted since, all that to say that in a classics course we do not know much ... it would be nice to learn to sew to cook to change a lead to do a bit of accounting (if only for his personal budget) to plant a nail to drill a hole ...
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by Remundo » 19/12/08, 13:48

And the end
nlc wrote:
C moa wrote:I don't know how it works at Remundo but I do know that some ingen schools (especially those that do integrated preps) have been saying for several years that they are thinking about taking the course over 6 years instead of 5 because the entry level is getting lower and lower.


Heuuu, the output level too :!: :!: :!:
I no longer take any intern (we pay them) from engineering school because for many they know how to make beautiful reports but do not even know how to hold a soldering iron :!:

nlc wrote:
C moa wrote:I don't know how it works at Remundo but I do know that some ingen schools (especially those that do integrated preps) have been saying for several years that they are thinking about taking the course over 6 years instead of 5 because the entry level is getting lower and lower.


Heuuu, the output level too :!: :!: :!:
I no longer take any intern (we pay them) from engineering school because for many they know how to make beautiful reports but do not even know how to hold a soldering iron :!:

Christophe wrote:
Remundo wrote:As a supreme moderator of econology, you could cut our posts and create a dedicated subject : Idea:


Well the problem is that there are double posts that talk about the 2 subject (car / education) .. ..

So, as a teacher, we can only leave you the honor of creating a new subject, right?

I have already found a title: "National education: negative growth?" Image

nlc that most FRENCH engineers do not know how to do anything with their 10 fingers is not a novelty besides it is too "dirty" to hold a socket wrench ... especially once you have the "diploma "... At least that's what we're trying to stuff you in the head ... The elite of France ... the Liters of France yeah!

Going from 5 to 6 years old will not change this mentality ... Should do less math and con theory and MUCH MUCH more practice (a ready-made TP is not practice for me, I think of real project achievements) ... Exactly as we train a Dilplom Engineer in Germany.

Do you prefer to drive in a Renault or a BMW?
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by Christophe » 19/12/08, 14:00

This is a good "summary" now let's tackle the "text explanation" before we start an "essay" Image
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by Remundo » 19/12/08, 14:08

Problem, thesis, anti-thesis, argumentation, conclusion : Cheesy:
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by bham » 19/12/08, 14:21

Since I only followed this Xth reform proposal with a distracted eye, Remundo can you make us STP a precise topo of what was proposed by the government to be able to judge on documents and objectively of the possible bad will students or government guidance in education? Thank you
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by Christophe » 19/12/08, 14:25

Remundo wrote:Problem, thesis, anti-thesis, argumentation, conclusion : Cheesy:


Wow master! : Cheesy:

+1 with bham (in your face !!)!
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by Remundo » 19/12/08, 14:40

And well, for starters, from sources oh how red-pink, hostile in principle to the government, and to refresh memories (June 2008) ...

source: http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualit ... x=RSS_notr
Le Nouvel Obs wrote:The "consensus text", signed by seven organizations, lists "sixteen points of convergence" on the reform of the high school and will allow to start the discussions on the reform of the high school.

Xavier Darcos (c) Reuters

Xavier Darcos, Minister of Education, and seven trade unions signed a joint text on Wednesday 11 June listing "sixteen points of convergence" on the reform of the lycée. This text will make it possible to start discussions on the reform.
Five teachers 'unions have signed this text: Snes-FSU (majority in middle and high schools) and Snep-FSU, Sgen-CFDT, Snalc-Csen, SE-Unsa and two head teachers' unions - SNPDEN-Unsa ( majority) and ID-FAEN.

"Standing still is no longer possible"

"I am happy that we have just signed this consensus text (...) We find (...) this basic agreement between all the actors when we talk about the subjects which engage the future of young people", declared Xavier Darcos to the press.

The Minister paid "tribute to the maturity of the personnel who, despite a year which was sometimes marked by tensions, considered that it was necessary to respond to the outstretched hand of the Minister and sign this text which is very engaging".
The signing was made possible according to him "because everyone" at the school, "agrees that standing still is no longer possible".

"One month to set the rules of the game"

The reform of the school must establish a new second class in September 2009, a new first in 2010 and a new terminal in 2011. The rector of Aix-Marseille, Jean-Paul de Gaudemar, now has "one month to set the rules of the game and a timetable" on the reform, said Xavier Darcos.

The text proposes, among other things, to "guarantee the continuation of studies in higher education", to reduce repetitions, to offer "real freedom of choice for high school students by avoiding too early confinement in courses" and give greater autonomy to establishments.

For this, guiding principles are retained, such as the development of "self-employment", the "customization of school routes"," more flexible "terms for" the upgrading students", or"gateway and reorientation possibilities".

Revaluation of the teaching profession

In the margins of the press point, the Minister of Education, Xavier Darcos, also stated that discussions with the unions on the issue of upgrading the teaching profession should take place in September.
"I think that we will meet again in September on this subject", with the trade unions, he declared to the press.
"We have a background document which, I recall, was a little lost in the limbo of animation - we will say - (social movements in Education, editor's note) of recent weeks, which is the Pochard report, "he said.
"This text has been discussed, it has not always been well understood, but in the end it remains for me a starting point, a foundation on which we can open negotiations and discussions."

"Difficult to talk to each other"

Handed to the Minister on February 4, the Pochard commission report explores several avenues, such as a redesign of the organization of teachers' working time, the autonomy of schools, or even versatility, that is to say the possibility of training teachers to teach two subjects in grades 6 and 5.
Xavier Darcos then promised proposals "before the summer", in the form of a white paper, to enhance the profession of teacher.
The Minister recalled that "we can consider that we have lost four months, that corresponds to the four months when frankly it was very difficult to speak to each other, I recall that between February and May, we had two demonstrations per week on average
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by Christophe » 19/12/08, 14:42

Hey we asked you for a TOPO ... there are already too many WORDS! : Mrgreen:

Well what we get out of national education should not ask too much : Cheesy:
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by Remundo » 19/12/08, 14:46

And here is the recent result (December 14, 2008)
Express wrote:Xavier Darcos details his reform of the second

Compulsory economic and social sciences and optional modules for a total of 3h 30 min of lessons per week: Xavier Darcos specifies his reform of the second, before a press conference scheduled for Tuesday.

The reform of the second class should provide more course hours with compulsory economic and social sciences and optional "modules" that the Minister of National Education Xavier Darcos must detail Tuesday, according to his ministry. He will deliver the final blueprint for the new second, the first step in his reform of the general and technological high school, during a highly anticipated press conference, in the midst of high school student mobilization.

Darcos, who gave an interview to the Sunday Journal on these questions, had presented in October the general outline, but uncertainties remained, while the new second year must come into force as of the start of the 2009 academic year, which makes it necessary to quickly inform secondary school students.

The school year will be divided into two semesters, with four class councils (two at mid-semester, two at the end of the semester), against three terms and three boards currently.

A student's week will consist of compulsory subjects (French, mathematics, history-geography, experimental sciences, two modern languages ​​and sport), six hours of "exploration or deepening modules"(two of three hours each) and three hours of specialized accompaniment (support, guidance assistance and / or interdisciplinary work).

The objectives: to give more autonomy to high school students, in order to better prepare them for higher education, and to avoid repetition.

Whereas the initial scheme included 30 hours per week (21 + 6 + 3), economic and social sciences (SES) should become compulsory for all, according to the entourage of Xavier Darcos, which would give a "common core" of 22:30 and a total schedule of 31:30.

"Classes with a particular timetable, international or European section, are maintained", adds one. The college students will have to choose, in 3rd, the two modules of the 1st semester of the second that they want to follow, and formulate intentions on those of the 2nd semester. The first mid-semester advice will be used to enable them to confirm or change these intentions. These four modules must be chosen from "at least three" of the four "dominant": "humanities", "sciences", "social sciences", "technologies", which will also be the dominant ones in first and final year.

But "none of the modules will be required to engage in the course of the terminal cycle", insists the ministry. It will not be possible to follow the same module twice: after "Latin 1", the pupil will not be able to redo "Latin 1" in the second semester, but may choose "Latin 2" or change subject.

Asked about the concerns of high school students concerning the maintenance or not of rare options, the entourage of Xavier Darcos assures that "the reform will not have any consequence on specialized high schools, with options in computer science, cinema, art or theater, this which is their strength ". He adds that until now "97%" of pupils took modern language 2 as one of the two options. As LV2 becomes compulsory, this will "free up two real options" per student.

While many high school students are convinced that the reform serves to save money, Xavier Darcos has already assured that there will be no job cuts. Especially since the weekly schedule should be 31:30. "If it was true that this new second was going to lead to job cuts, the unions would have quantified them, and this is not the case", they say to the ministry


Source: http://www.lexpress.fr/actualite/societ ... 26300.html
Last edited by Remundo the 19 / 12 / 08, 14: 50, 1 edited once.
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