They move France, after Oil with Hulot

[Christophe]

But there again, one could criticize the show: such as, one could believe that it is a stroke of genius (I take the image of Steve Jobs), whereas it is only a poor little "German Pellets ". So apart from the boy launching himself in France, which is VERY GOOD, he does not invent anything ... but between the lines, it is presented as if he was a little French genius ...

No I haven't watched the show ... As for genius, welcome to France !! As France has almost no industry, it is necessary to brush industrial initiatives (even if there is nothing innovative) ...

Bahm, for the price of energy and purchasing power here are the curves of the last 18 years: https://www.econologie.com/forums/prix-du-pe ... t6543.html



But nevertheless the daily newspapers and other bankster or economic analysts, it is this curve that they generally see / present:

[bham]

Ah yes. Did you remember the brand (at one point, we see it on a bag)? To see if there is a website. If it is certified ......

Just ask : EO2 http://www.eo2.fr/home/index.php

But there again, one could criticize the show: such as, one could believe that it is a stroke of genius (I take the image of Steve Jobs), whereas it is only a poor little "German Pellets ". So apart from the boy launching himself in France, which is VERY GOOD, he does not invent anything ... but between the lines, it is presented as if he was a little French genius ...

He is an opportunist who knows how to find the right vein and find funding; it's rather good that things are developing in France, for once we can make Remundo lie with its "Vormidables Zindustries Hallemandes" and then let's not kid ourselves, renewable energies will only develop if they bring in money.

Yes I knew your curves Chris.

For Desertec, don't agree with you Did67, don't kid yourself, colonialism is no longer as easily applicable today and that is for the best; if such a project were successful, fear that the energy source countries could be paid, even if it means redistributing the windfall to the citizens.

[Christophe]

So it's not a question of space. But a question of moral integrity. In your squares, there are a few thousand people who live there, eat, drink without our energy problems. They suffer from heat without asking for air conditioning ...

Am not a specialist but I think it takes less staff (compared to the energy produced) in a power plant with thermal concentration than in a nuclear power plant. But I could be wrong?

In any case I have always been surprised by the very large number of employees of a nuclear power station since it can go up to several thousand (in teams but still) and again, I do not think that the temporary workers and subcontractors (you know those who go to the most dangerous areas so that their diseases do not enter the Edf stats) are counted in these figures.

I maintain my red card and invite you not to be cradled in an ecological form of neo-colonialism.

Uh 2 remarks:

a) it is not a question of neo colonialism but to pay well for this energy to the sovereign countries of these deserts and to those who transport it to your home ...

b) this is the case now and precisely the case with petroleum: a large part is still extracted from deserts, right? Is it neo-colonialism?

[Did67]

- gasoline cost less today, to corroborate what Christophe said, compared to the average salary, but I don't know what order.

It did not have the same scale as Christophe. From memory, he compared to 74. He claimed that in SMIC hours, today the liter of diesel - I think - is only worth 1/4 of what it was in 74. So that contrary to what everyone feels, energy is not expensive.

And on that we agree.

The 1/4 surprised me anyway, because I had Christophe's painting in mind. We returned to 90.

The principle remains. And therefore, the only reasonable solution: the carbon tax. And Hulot has quite rightly engaged in this.

[Christophe]

Just ask

23th October, 2008

The Saint-Germain-près-Herment (Auvergne) factory produces its first wood pellets.

Oh yeah, okay, we couldn't be more recent !!!

[Did67]

Am not a specialist but I think it takes less staff (compared to the energy produced) in a power plant with thermal concentration than in a nuclear power plant. But I could be wrong?

No, no, you're not there: I'm talking about local people who live there, Tuaregs if it's the Sahara. The "desert" is never empty! It has occupants, certainly nomadic. There is a life, a culture ...

For me, this comes before my energy concern which I must resolve at home.

And the fact of paying correctly does not change anything. You are not going to start thinking like the representative of the oil companies about Alberta. We respect everything. We are replanting ...

Finally, you can. I refuse to reduce ecology to its technical or financial aspect.

We can eradicate the touargs with our solar panels as the conquerors have almost eradicated the Indians and their bison, in any case a civilization ...

I keep the red card!

[Christophe]

No, no, you're not there: I'm talking about local people who live there, Tuaregs if it's the Sahara. The "desert" is never empty! It has occupants, certainly nomadic. There is a life, a culture ...

And the populations close to nuclear power plants? Did we consult them?

If there is indeed a place on earth (firm) where the density population approaches 0 it is deserts ...

Attention I do not defend the industrialists against the social aspects but in this case I think that it is a false problem ...

We can eradicate the touargs with our solar panels as the conquerors have almost eradicated the Indians and their bison, in any case a civilization ...

I keep the red card!

But no one is talking about eradication! And the places selected by Desertec (if realized one day) will surely take social considerations into play ... moreover they could be scattered everywhere on earth, the surface on the map is only (highly) symbolic!

Have the Saudis been eradicated by exploiting their oil? On the contrary, we have made them among the richest men in the history of humanity!

[Did67]

For Desertec, don't agree with you Did67, don't kid yourself, colonialism is no longer as easily applicable today and that is for the best; if such a project were successful, fear that the energy source countries could be paid, even if it means redistributing the windfall to the citizens.

OK, guys ...

1) Much space would be needed to deal with this subject; Colonoliasm, in the era of globalization, indeed, it becomes very complicated ...

2) Leave me, based on experience (12 years in Africa, tours in the Sahara) the right to express these reservations. How I tolerate the raguments of those who are against wind turbines while I am 150% for and find them beautiful!

3) If the idea came to a Tuareg chief to install solar panels everywhere and to sell us, dear I hope, energy, I will still be with the authentic Touarges who will fight to preserve their space, their culture, their way of life ... And if the idea came to a Desertec executive to corrupt a chaffaillon, I would be against him ... And if he just had the idea, from the top of his science , to convince him without corrupting him, I would always be against ...

4) I am not an idealist, I unfortunately still use too much oil to afford this luxury (of being an idealist). But if I wrote elsewhere in another thread that I am ready to pay for my pellets even a little more than oil, it is also because I want to stay in the local economy ... Of course, that petroleum is a form of neo-colonialism ... An "indoor" ski resort in Dubai, that is perhaps reasonable ???? And the moguls who buy an A380 for themselves are perhaps respectable people ???

5) But it is not because it is worse with petroleum, that I am "for" doing "a little less worse" with solar ...

I express ONE point of view. Mine. With conviction. And even consistency ... We are not fundamentalists on this forum, no ? No "established truth"? Shall we talk?

[Remundo]

Bobobobop ...

Otherwise, ride a bike and wear 3 sweaters, wait for late trains every day and pile in like sardines, what an ambitious development model ... If there are those who like, it's respectable, but you have to see the bigger thing ... It is nothing less than a decline in quality of life.

Neocolonialism ... no, on the contrary, with the sun, everyone (individual + nations) has their energy autonomy, because solar is actually direct, indirect solar, and transformed into hydraulic wind and biomass.

We in France, we wouldn't even need the Maghreb ...

Some sites in the Mediterranean, some sites in the Atlantic, equipment of metropolitan rocky ridges ... and our biomass and hydraulics ... There's everything you need.

The poor Tuaregs ... Cover less than 4% of the Sahara, they should have enough space without even seeing the facilities behind a dune ... Now DESERTEC or not, if they preferred to make their camel die of thirst in the middle of the desert, they can continue to do so with the utmost respect for their traditions ... But desalinated water, greenhouse agriculture, energy for drinking water, setting up schools and developing their own country, that should be considered, right?

I do not give a red card, I play the sun card in the broad sense. Take it whoever wants, when the barrel is at $ 300 in 3 or 4 years and gasoline at 3 Euros in France

@+

[RIAZ]

My post last night, a little dark I admit, was written hot under the blow of a quasi anger at the need of the media system which can spoil 2 hours of a big TV channel at a time of great listening.
The worst dangers to our democracy come from this filthy nullity ...

Now I would get angry again ...

On reflection, and to charge the mule one more shot (!), There is the case of JL ETIENNE. I am dismayed by his total disconnection with the subject. He's a guy who was kind to me. I had some doubts when, probably inspired by Vespasian, he considered that TOTAL's money had no smell. I can confess today that I sincerely rejoiced in the crash (stupid in addition!) Of its airship proudly displaying the logo of the said TOTAL.
But that is only proof of my bad background!

Maud FONTENOY is not in the same category. I saw her seal for Peugeot at the last MONDIAL in Paris. It would have been fun if the car painted in green by Renault collapsed under it like that of MDI!


But, there were also quite a few things that you all noted in your posts.

I disagree with some of you on the content of a "mainstream" program. Whenever I have the opportunity (and when I don't have enough, I provoke them!) I tackle these subjects, basically, with people who have not done polytechnic. They understand these people perfectly well, and we can tell them things as they are.

We must see the precautions that are taken not to disturb them as precautions taken by the powerful today to be still the powerful tomorrow. As has been said, it is much better to have the future described by Messrs. TOTAL, EDF, PSA, AREVA and BOLLORE and others who prepare it to measure for themselves. The latter, BOLLORE, has of course done a market study, he will sell his cars to his pontoon friends.
If the people began to understand, the progress of the world would necessarily be more complicated to manage, my poor lady.

So I think that with a good interviewer (not usually dummies on duty), we could give JANCOVICI time, and everyone would understand.