MDI compressed air vehicles: JT H FR2 13 03-01-2008

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jean63
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by jean63 » 05/01/08, 19:37

oliburn wrote:here is an excerpt from an article seen on "tribune.fr"
we understand how MDI is funded:

After months spent studying the OneCATS from every angle, Tata has just signed a technology transfer contract with MDI for a check for 20 million euros.

It will allow Indians to manufacture at home and use in their country the compressed air engine born in Carros that they will put in their own bodies.

Iranians, South Koreans, Australians also parade at a steady pace at the headquarters of MDI, seduced by the product and the idea of ​​micro-factories imagined by Guy Nègre. Small production units installed in each country interested in the concept, and in which the cars will be manufactured.

"No transport, no subcontracting, no external suppliers, everything will be made and sold on site, each unit being capable of producing a car every half hour", adds Guy Nègre,

"It's more profitable, more ecological than the behemoth factories of the big manufacturers, it's a kind of franchise system on which we already have fifty options," he said.

Excellent article !! But what are we waiting for in France to go there?

I know, we are waiting for the agreement of the French lobby of the Pigeot-Citroën- Renault car who have invested a lot in the Hdi Cdi + FAP diesel and now a little in the E85, and normally Pigeot has to get into the diesel hybrid , then they will block any new initiative especially if it is manufactured in small independent factories; it changes the whole usual process with subcontracting or production in low cost countries.

We will see if we are still also c.ons in France.
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by bamboo » 05/01/08, 21:00

jean63 wrote:Excellent article !! But what are we waiting for in France to go there?

I know, we are waiting for the agreement of the French lobby of the Pigeot-Citroën- Renault car who have invested a lot in the Hdi Cdi + FAP diesel and now a little in the E85, and normally Pigeot has to get into the diesel hybrid , then they will block any new initiative especially if it is manufactured in small independent factories; it changes the whole usual process with subcontracting or production in low cost countries.

We will see if we are still also c.ons in France.


A little quick for my taste your reaction:
- First of all "no transport"
=> spare parts will not be manufactured on site ... especially if a car must be manufactured in 1 / 2h
=> nothing prohibits subcontracting these in "low-cost countries"

- A lobby cannot prevent a company from competing. If Renault wants to go there, Peuget can do nothing about it. You are going to tell me that Renault is not going to go there. But if a guy wants to open a franchise, Peugeot can't do anything either.

I find this obsession with always seeing lobbies everywhere a little too permanent. There are, of course, but they don't do everything.
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by Eric DUPONT » 05/01/08, 21:08

Hello,

I discover this new post and some interesting questions like recyclability.

with regard to the motor'air project, the hull is planned to be made of carbon fiber combined with a thermopstic resin such as polycarbonate or prolypopilene. these plastics are recyclable, it is possible to recover them by heating the hull of the car that has reached the end of its life, while on the other side we can recover the fiber.
the fiber can not be really recyclable but it should be noted that it comes from petroleum and that it takes 2 kg of plastic to make 1 kg of carbon fiber.
it is of course preferable to use petroleum as a raw material than as fuel. comparing with 100 kg of carbon fiber a car with compressed air can run 1 to 2 million km while a gasoline car will need to make as much km, 1000 times more oil.

with regard to the heat produced during the compression of the air it should be known that when one compresses air one obtains heat and compressed air. it is in a way a double results. to compare an electric heater only produces heat. that is to say that for 1000 watt / hour spend and well we get in equivalent calories 1000 watt / h while for a compressor lo'rsque we compress air and we spend 1000 wat / h on get the calorie equivalent of 1000 watt / hour + of compressed air.

in fact, the compressed air motor is annoyed because we wonder who are responsible for the misinformation they undergo?

MDI has chosen a different engine route.

no patent has been filed for the motor air motor which in theory should be slightly more efficient than that of MDI

and be careful in the different information given by the press concerning the compressed air motor there is a lot of misunderstanding and errors. But the fact remains that the compressed air motor pollutes 1000 times less and has a yield far superior to the gasoline engine when it is bi-energy.
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by oliburn » 05/01/08, 21:28

hi Eric !!!

would you be the eric dupont who tried or succeeded in making a proto
wood (medium) and an air motor?
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by gegyx » 05/01/08, 21:49

Eric Dupont wrote:with regard to the heat produced during the compression of the air it should be known that when one compresses air one obtains heat and compressed air. it is in a way a double results. to compare an electric heater only produces heat. that is to say that for 1000 watt / hour spend and well we get in equivalent calories 1000 watt / h while for a compressor lo'rsque we compress air and we spend 1000 wat / h on get the calorie equivalent of 1000 watt / hour + of compressed air.
in fact, the compressed air motor is annoyed because we wonder who are responsible for the misinformation they undergo?
??????
A compressor that uses 1000W to compress, makes 1000W of (heat + compression work) ...

It is as if the Texan Bush said that 1 gallon of petrol gives in a burner the caloric equivalent of 1 gallon of fuel, but that if it is used judiciously and advisedly in a car, it will give the same energy in heat, but that in addition, icing on the cake, it allowed to move 30 Miles ...
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by jm69 » 05/01/08, 23:02

Christophe wrote:Yes gegyx is too big to be true this case ...Dare pretending to sell a car at the price of a mob... frankly how to say ... nan jprefere shut me up ...

Or is it a car to ride either? : Mrgreen:


The "car" (it is well specified that it is a kind of "Citroen Méhari" ...) weighs only 3 or 400 kg (the engine actually 25 approx.) Less material therefore, is devoid of peripherals such as the cooling circuit or the dir. assisted (no need!) and for this entry-level model a lot of costly, heavy (AND breaking down) unnecessary gadgets.

And probably, still at the entry level, spartan comfort ...

It must therefore be able to come out at 4 or 5000 euros. And it would suit me very well in a second car to drive a maximum of 2 or 50 km to go to work or go shopping.

Question premium of 5000 of the State, should not be counted in full, it is capped at 20% of the sale price ...

It remains "fair" to know if this time the Mr. Negro makes us yet another announcement that he will not keep ... I would tend to be optimistic this time (it's been ten years ...), in view of the dough he collected in India and Australia (Austr $ 1,5 million, ie around € 8 or € 900), he should get by.

It costs nothing to wish him good luck! :D

another "air" project: a single-seater, for the city (low speed), at 8000 €: http://kernelys.free.fr/spip.php?article47
Last edited by jm69 the 05 / 01 / 08, 23: 34, 1 edited once.
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by jm69 » 05/01/08, 23:16

citro wrote:: arrow: The first article on Guy Nègre and his air car that I read dates from 1992 ... in Science & vie.
It's only about 15ans ...

Today, it takes less than 3 years to a manufacturer between the idea of ​​launching a new vehicle and its sale ...


er, question of balance of power, order of magnitude: in 2005 during my visit to MDI in Carros, Cyril Nègre announced that in 10 years he had spent an R&D budget equivalent to what Mercedes spends in a few days ... : Cheesy:

MDI is not a manufacturer like any other!
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by Christophe » 06/01/08, 00:43

jm69 wrote:MDI is not a manufacturer like any other!


Certainly !! To say the least ... but is he already entitled to the name constructor? For the moment it's mostly R&D ...

Hold on, who also went to see them "for real" (I was there in 2002 in Caros), could you give us your general impression? Apparently I think we must be roughly in the same state of mind every 2 (I hope while no longer believing the promises) ... In terms of numbers, it was not $ 20 million that had been signed with Auntie?
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by jm69 » 06/01/08, 22:01

Christophe wrote:
jm69 wrote:MDI is not a manufacturer like any other!


Certainly !! To say the least ... but is he already entitled to the name constructor? For the moment it's mostly R&D ...

yes, they have only sold licenses, not cars yet.

Christophe wrote:Hold on, who also went to see them "for real" (I was there in 2002 in Caros), could you give us your general impression? Apparently I think we should be roughly in the same state of mind both (I hope while no longer believing in the promises) ...

Excited by the visit (planned: approx. 2 hours, spent almost 4 hours, including 3 with Cyril Nègre: first-hand information, and above all the energy of the inventors ...
Yes, like you, hoping AND always disappointed by the announcements not followed, but there, it seems that with the pocketed under, they can go "faster" ... I never understood that they did not was able to bring out a vehicle, even a "simple" heavy quadricycle, salable without pb since the production prices are low, to prove themselves.

On the other hand, I found in 2005 that their dispersal on groups and especially industrial tractors was hazardous; still that the groups ca should have worked: brilliant the group with its air canister charged by the sector in normal times, to cope with short power cuts: zero maintenance, zero pollution, start guaranteed by a simple solenoid valve ... + the versions with "external" fuel, low polluting, similar (very close?) to a Stirling or an Ericsson.

Christophe wrote:Was it not $ 20 million that had been signed with Tata?

I do not know.
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by jean63 » 09/01/08, 08:33

Another very recent article (08.01.2008) on the MDI oneCATs interesting:

http://www.autodeclics.com/article13395 ... _dair.html

Ecological and economical
The range of models offered by the company MDI includes all kinds of formats, from the city car, the MiniCATs, to the "train on wheels", the multiCATs. The most versatile, the OneCATs, 3,4 meters long. This car has a compressed air tank similar to a diving tank, that must be combined with an "energetic adjuvant" like petrol, diesel or any biofuel. Its dynamic services should therefore be more than sufficient for daily trips. In terms of performance, compressed air motors should not be ashamed of electric alternatives, for example. The variant of the OneCATs the most powerful, developing 22 horsepower, allows a maximum speed of 110 km / h for road consumption of around 1,7 liters (petrol) per 100 km traveled. It therefore emits 35g of CO2 per kilometer and offers urban autonomy in zero pollution of 100 kilometers by operating only with compressed air and without rejecting polluting gases.. The marketing of the OneCATs is expected during 2008 for a selling price between 3 euros, for the basic three-seat version, and 500 euros for the so-called “Normal” model offering between 4 and 000 seats.

It looks like it is becoming clearer !! announcement effect?

This autodeclics site is also interesting because it talks about all vehicles with low discharge of "pollutants" =>

https://www.econologie.com/forums/post66704.html#66704
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