Reviewed by EDF engineer on misinformation tf1

[C moa]

well, I notice that I get carried away every time you look for lice, Cmoa ... alros we stop there tope there?
no because I think we have already talked about it 100 times!
nevertheless I save this very interesting debate, it allowed to go even further, which opens our eyes.

HIGH FIVE !!!

I believe I have found the origin of our debate:

jonule wrote: "
we will see those who live near nuclear power plants, + many to fill electric vehicles "

Finally an anti nuk which poses the problem of charging electric cars !!!

Will you go so far as to condemn them?

Very clearly I did not want to look for lice on the contrary I thought it important to emphasize that you were the first anti nuk which posed the problem of the charge of electric vehicles !!! It is rather consistent with your convictions !!!

[Remundo]

Well you see, we are all friends on econo

An alpha particle is an ionized helium atom. They are emitted by fissions of large atoms such as uranium or plutonium.

They are harmless: non-radioactive, a few decimetres of air completely brake them. A metallic sheet stops them.

The danger comes from the gamma radiation of de-excitation of certain nuclei, often emitted at the same time as the alpha particle.

It is usually accepted that 4 meters of concrete dissipates gamma rays sufficiently. Even better if the wall has lead sheets.

If not to speak a little about ITER:
The fusion of ITER is not aneutronic: in short, it emits fast neutrons which will activate the walls: to activate means to excite the atoms of these walls which then become radioactive waste.

Regardless of this, ITER is probably not technically viable. There are enormous "Bremstrahlung" problems, that is to say the radiation which leaves the plasma by collisional braking of the atoms. This radiation causes the plasma to lose a lot of energy, which fails to reach Lawson's criterion, ie the critical point where the fusion energy is exactly at the energy losses of the plasma.

Below this point, you have a wet firecracker, on this point, you produce NOTHING, above it starts to be a little less silly, but not necessarily very effective.

For the moment, ITER only reaches the critical point for a few seconds before choking miserably. And it could last a long time, even with billions

I have always thought that ITER was above all a research laboratory disguised as a nice clean energy of civil thermonuclear fusion.

There is indeed an immense thermonuclear fusion energy (10 times human needs: the Sun), but "it is surely too free and peaceful"

One thing about the Nuke (fission or fusion); whatever the nuclear nuclear technology, the danger does not come from the operation of the power plant, but:
* of this waste, in the following 3 aspects:
- waste extraction
- waste storage (we don't know how to destroy it yet)
- dismantling of power plants (huge end-of-life waste)

* and also military technologies that systematically flow from it

For Z-Machine, go see Cuicui's Topic!

@+

[Lietseu]

At a time when, more than ever - "unity is strength" - I find it unfortunate that discussions without any real basis take place on this forum

I do not believe that the power stations are without danger, one only has to follow the news of Tricastin (among others) to know that radioactive-extremely dangerous materials "produced for military reason" are stored n Anywhere without special precautions and even, if we take measures, they will never be big enough!

Chernobyl is a compelling example of what nuclear danger means! If you went there now, you would probably be amazed to see the idyllic nature of the landscape, the wild beauty of the forests returned to their natural states. - because the humans are gone- atomic pollution is all the more terrifying since we can't see it, all animals, insects and plants are poisoned for hundreds of years !!!

No humans will be able to live there for generations, and no, the cloud is not about stopping at the Belgian and French borders, there are places in Corsica where to eat what pushes you back to commit suicide in the medium term!

I join jonule, in his basic speech, we have nothing to do with this nameless shit that is nuclear - in all its forms - there is NOTHING good to draw from it, not even to treat cancers, since they were born from this same source….

We can ironically say that treating cancer by radiation means treating evil with evil

I do not intend to argue, even if it is a genre where my inordinate Ego is extremely pleased, (like yours probably), I would like to have more ears and alert eyes to read the forum on future prospects like the rotary wind turbine, rather than the nameless shit that is nuclear. Wind turbine that has no future without your support

NUCLEAR HAS NO FUTURE OTHER THAN TOTAL ERADICATION.
This is my opinion and, nobody will change me!

I hope more in the arrival of terrestrial extras than in the pseudo "nuke" clear and clean like a stream full of invisible mercury, but very present which kills Indian children in the forests of the Amazon, for the fault of asshole who no eyes (Gods) are gold.

When men live on love, when there will be no more misery, our children will be troubadours and we will have died my brothers ……… singing 30 years ago… .. and here is life and history takes an unexpected turn by bringing a country populated by brave people exasperated by the idiots in power, to the pantheon of the first future world power based on things dreamed of by generations of "dreamers", many of whom died through the fault of patent pessimists (and other hired killers), a dream is being born in the USA, long life for him and the hopes he carries !!! A world where power will not be the raison d'être, where humans will eat at the same table regardless of the color of their neighbors' skin ... we have come a long way, that progress in a small - but masterful night -! So many challenges to take up!

DING, DANG, DONG!

[C moa]

I have always thought that ITER was above all a research laboratory disguised as a nice clean energy of civil thermonuclear fusion.

Well it seems to me that it has never been presented otherwise ...

There is indeed an immense thermonuclear fusion energy (10 times human needs: the Sun), but "it is surely too free and peaceful"

Too free ?? AMHA when I see the price of PV, batteries and regulation, I don't really feel that it is free. Not to mention the "availability" of the sun ...

One thing about the Nuke (fission or fusion); whatever the nuclear nuclear technology, the danger does not come from the operation of the power plant, but:
* of this waste, in the following 3 aspects:
- waste extraction
- waste storage (we don't know how to destroy it yet)
- dismantling of power plants (huge end-of-life waste)

* and also military technologies that systematically flow from it

For the fission I agree, for the Fusion (with a big F), you have to see, we are only at the beginning !!!

[jonule]

it is not the problem that you put new sources it is that you have the bad habit of not putting them at the right time just to drown the fish or you distort them in a caricatural way.

I don't want to drown anything, on the contrary it is to get to the bottom of things rather than swimming on the surface.

We are talking about electricity production and you are going towards military applications.

you know very well that they are linked, otherwise the fusion would be hydrogen-boron oriented as cuicui points out;

the water released by the Hague is less radioactive than Volvic water or milk.

are you kidding? you want to go drink water coming from the cooling circuit of the La Hague factory? I want to see the video!

I confirm, there is no plutonium in FUSION nuclear power plants.

I tell you about the other places where plutonium is used in other power plants, I find that you play a little on words to drown the fish ... it would be clear, if I were paranoid, that you are defending the nuclear lobby to say "there is no plutonium in the power stations": unacceptable, we cannot let that read.

Depleted uranium is a NATURAL material, I'm curious to see that you omitted it ...

the nuclear lobby follows this strategy exactly: sow confusion between what is natural and what is artificial, so as not to be held responsible.
OR if uranium can be found in the form of ore in the ground, and separated by geological barriers (thank you mother nature), when it is depleted, leaving the enrichment plant, it has therefore been ARTIFICIALLY MODIFIED ( as for GMOs, easy to understand): we cannot therefore say that depleted uranium is natural, it is a modified isotope.
I understand that: either you are trying to test my abilities in this area to easily try to give me a crooked leg in front of everyone, or that you are trying a vain attempt at confusion between what is natural and artificial: here is how you are read and understood.

having worked in this industry, I think it is generally serious and that a lot of precautions are taken

my suspicions are therefore verified, you do not speak objectively. how to argue in this case?
how to defend an industry which has lied in the past (Chernobyl) and which continues to do so (Tricastin)?

and please stop the people of Greenpeace are not "my friends" I do not know them, I am not an activist, I ask myself the right questions and I am looking for answers, I see that in this area there are has a lot of communication made by the lobby around scientific points which leaves them some leeway to drown the fish through statistics and tie suits. I therefore think rightly that some should be informed, in the name of transparency, what MUST this industry, led by industrialists and salespeople.

- ITER has never been presented as a 100% clean solution and for good reason it does not exist and it will probably never exist !!!

so why continue on this path?

To get out of nuclear power, what they say is true

ah well anyway!
you see that "my little friends" as you like to quote it, do not say that bullshit ...


PS: I invite you to watch this:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/ineluctabl ... t6491.html
http://www.arte.tv/fr/accueil/contenus- ... 66462.html
reality or fiction?

[jonule]

An alpha particle is an ionized helium atom. They are emitted by fissions of large atoms such as uranium or plutonium.

They are harmless: non-radioactive, a few decimetres of air completely brake them. A metallic sheet stops them.

who calls himself a scientist?
you forget in your reasoning to specify the context: yes it is harmless FOR THE PUBLIC (you and me) when it is done in a lab, which does not breathe ie the air present in the experience must be filtered: impossible the particles are of the order of a nanometer. but if it is in the ambient air, the air carries them and these particles can be breathed, through the nose and the lungs and enter directly into the organism (I repeat it for the 100th time at least), or otherwise simply by a wound on the body (as with all diseases): we therefore apply the precautionary principle as for GMOs, to cite this example.

understand ?
an alpha particle is not dangerous outside the human body, but once inside, it radiates, ionizes from the inside, carcinogenesis, carcinogen etc ... all of Maurice André's work goes in this direction, from 70s and are dedicated to the association of information on ionizing rays, AIPRI, not to be confused with CIPRI: one is independent the other is not.

I give them to you so that you understand remundo:
http://users.skynet.be/mauriceandre

[C moa]

Jonule exaggerates you !!! We had TOPE !!!

Well, I don't want to reopen the debate, but just two details:

1st point:

Cmoa wrote:
We are talking about electricity production and you are going towards military applications.

you know very well that they are linked, otherwise the fusion would be hydrogen-boron oriented as cuicui points out;

The orientation of going towards ITER rather than hydrogen-boron is absolutely not linked to military applications but to the fact that it was thought that this second technique could never be implemented.

Indeed, the hydrogen-boron technology was known but not applicable because it takes a large amount of energy to initiate fusion. This technology became more realistic in 2005 when researchers produced a T ° of 3.7 billion degrees in a z machine. This result was unexpected to say the least !!!

For our part, ITER had been validated and the decision was made to continue despite the fact that a second path was opening up. Know that work on the subject is taking place on the other side of the Atlantic.

If you want more precision discuss it with cuicui, it regularly brings us information on the subject.

2nd point concerning natural radioactivity:
Let's be clear, I'm not trying to minimize natural radioactivity by talking about natural radioactivity !!!
You must first know that radioactivity is everywhere and that it is generally underestimated.
Thus, in Brittany and in the central massif, the abundant presence of granite in houses poses many problems due to the release of radon (alpha particle). I do not know the current figures but less than 10 years ago the Ministry of Health considered that radon was directly responsible for approximately 1000 deaths. This is why diagnostic and sanitation work has been underway for several years in these two regions.

Another example occurred during the disruption of a transformer station in a power plant. The rubble from the post had to be removed and when the truck wanted to leave the site, all the beacons were activated and the truck was blocked. In the power station in question, I can tell you that it was a big fight because it was an important incident for safety, that the safety authorities were warned ....
Above all, it was necessary to understand how such a quantity of radioelements could be found in rubble which had never been near or far in contact with radioactive elements of the power station.

After analysis, it turned out that the person responsible was the sand present in the concrete. This sand came from Armorican quarries and also naturally contained significant quantities of radioelements.

If you are interested, I could also tell you about the time when firefighters came to a plant with natural sources (they forgot to put them away after an exercise ... ). They did not pass the door and we confiscated the sources from them because they were well above authorized standards and above all they were not properly stored at home.

Again, I'm not talking about natural radioactivity to minimize artificial radioactivity !!! but

I don't want to drown anything, on the contrary it is to get to the bottom of things rather than swimming on the surface.

Go this time I definitely top!

[Christophe]

Sorry to bother you but what is TOPE?

Edit: ah this is the future of TOPE LA!

[C moa]

Sorry to bother you but what is a TOPE?

it's not TOPE it's done (I don't have the emphasis on capital letters). Like "tope there !!!"

well, I notice that I get carried away every time you look for lice, Cmoa ... alros we stop there tope there?

And me someone who tells me that it is racing while we are talking about nuclear, I do not hesitate a second, I top !!!

[C moa]

Edit: ah this is the future of TOPE LA!

In this case it was the past participle but yes that's it !!!