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thibr
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Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by thibr » 11/11/20, 19:28


For two millennia, they have sought each other, bickered and sometimes even waged war.


Rhetoric or philosophy?

Which is most useful for men?

Philosophers reproach rhetoricians for making too little regard for truth, for betting everything on efficiency, even if it means deceiving, obscuring judgments, and manipulating.

For their part, the rhetoricians will blame the philosophers for spending too much time in their theories and too little in contact with life.

It's easy to have clean hands when you don't have hands. Yes, the rhetorician assumes to do everything possible to help those who seek to shape tomorrow.

But although I play in the rhetorical team, I encourage you, obviously, to nourish yourself with philosophy.

So I called on one of its proud contemporary representatives.


good reflection : Mrgreen:
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by Christophe » 11/11/20, 19:38

I'm skipping my turn ! : Mrgreen:
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Ce forum helped you? Help him too so that he can continue helping others - LET'S IMPROVE OUR EXCHANGES ON THE FORUM - Publish an article on Econology and Google News
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by Exnihiloest » 11/11/20, 20:01

thibr wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozYlXG3QeUI
For two millennia, they have sought each other, bickered and sometimes even waged war.


Rhetoric or philosophy?

Which is most useful for men?

Philosophers reproach rhetoricians for making too little regard for truth, for betting everything on efficiency, even if it means deceiving, obscuring judgments, and manipulating.

For their part, the rhetoricians will blame the philosophers for spending too much time in their theories and too little in contact with life.

It's easy to have clean hands when you don't have hands. Yes, the rhetorician assumes to do everything possible to help those who seek to shape tomorrow.

But although I play in the rhetorical team, I encourage you, obviously, to nourish yourself with philosophy.

So I called on one of its proud contemporary representatives.


good reflection : Mrgreen:


Answer without ambiguity, philosophy.
First, the criticism mentioned by rhetoricians against him does not hold water. The philosophy is well anchored in reality and must be, since it is a reflection on our condition. Admittedly, it is not always practiced with a forceful demonstration of detailed remarks, but when it is, it is fascinating because we really get an insight into the reality that we then see differently. It can also be, but in a language that is too hermetic, and the relationship to reality will not be seen by the uninitiated. This is the lot of a few philo teachers without pedagogy, with their students, while others know how to awaken and provoke reactions in young people.
If the art of rhetoric is useful for clearly expressing one's ideas, it is misguided, especially with communication which, in my opinion, is its current form: it is not a question of asking questions to open or solicit minds, nor of to speak on all aspects of a problem, not to question and seek the truth, but to convey your own and get the other to adopt your point of view. It is the art of politicians and salespeople. If you do not agree with them, they will say to you: "if we did not succeed in convincing you, it is that we probably expressed ourselves badly". They will never say: "if you do not agree with us, it is because you have understood us correctly but see things according to your own grid of criteria".
Philo: 1 Rhetoric: 0.
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by eclectron » 12/11/20, 08:27

Exnihiloest wrote:
Philo: 1 Rhetoric: 0.

Philosophy = Love of truth.
I don't know why, I don't find you credible or coherent when you write "Philo: 1 Rhetoric: 0"
cf: episode on the "ABC machine" where you have not read, or knowingly ignored, my previous words to stick your preconceived and false ideas on me.
This is not the love of the true ... and it is the love of the true in me says it : Wink:
Crook! : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by ABC2019 » 12/11/20, 08:32

eclectron wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:
Philo: 1 Rhetoric: 0.

Philosophy = Love of truth.
I don't know why, I don't find you credible or coherent when you write "Philo: 1 Rhetoric: 0"
cf: episode on the "ABC machine" where you have not read, or knowingly ignored, my previous words to stick your preconceived and false ideas on me.
This is not the love of the true ... and it is the love of the true in me says it : Wink:
Crook! : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

that's fine rhetoric on the other hand : Mrgreen:
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by eclectron » 12/11/20, 08:54

ABC2019 wrote:
eclectron wrote:
Exnihiloest wrote:
....
Crook! : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

that's fine rhetoric on the other hand : Mrgreen:

I wasn't talking about you but maybe by identifying yourself, you felt compassion for your comrade in arms?

Applied to a bad cause, this is what rhetoric is capable of (fiction of course : Wink: , general film!):
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by Janic » 12/11/20, 10:02

Philosophy = Love of truth.
or also love of wisdom! Who today, like yesterday, can boast of corresponding to it? So we only have rhetoric left! Philo = 0, rheto = 10 : Cheesy:
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by eclectron » 12/11/20, 10:14

Janic wrote:
Philosophy = Love of truth.
or also love of wisdom! Who today, like yesterday, can boast of corresponding to it? So we only have rhetoric left! Philo = 0, rheto = 10 : Cheesy:

Yes, I understand you but I do not agree.
It is when the rhetoric is silent that wisdom can emerge. 'can' but this is not systematic. : Wink:
'Love, truth, wisdom' still have a bright future ahead of them, even if the times make us greatly doubt ... : roll:
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by Janic » 12/11/20, 10:19

Yes, I understand you but I do not agree.
It is when the rhetoric is silent that wisdom can emerge. 'can' but this is not systematic. : Wink:
'Love, truth, wisdom' still have a bright future ahead of them, even if the times make us greatly doubt ... : roll:
It has been going on for millennia (millions of years according to some) and apart from a few failed attempts, wisdom has hardly made any adherents. Hence rhetoric as a consolation prize! :?
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Re: Rhetoric VS Philosophy

by eclectron » 12/11/20, 12:24

Janic wrote:
Yes, I understand you but I do not agree.
It is when the rhetoric is silent that wisdom can emerge. 'can' but this is not systematic. : Wink:
'Love, truth, wisdom' still have a bright future ahead of them, even if the times make us greatly doubt ... : roll:
It has been going on for millennia (millions of years according to some) and apart from a few failed attempts, wisdom has hardly made any adherents. Hence rhetoric as a consolation prize! :?

What I don't like about rhetoric is its possibility of turning to the dark side, while wisdom doesn't.
Otherwise it is no longer wisdom.
Okay, wisdom loses all the time but statistically it will end up winning one day! : Lol:
Except that 'winning' is not part of his vocabulary! : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:
It is not known when wisdom wins. : Wink: but it operates ....

Looking back, I think that as humanity we are a little less stupid than we were centuries ago.
We no longer make sacrifices to the gods to buy their favors.
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