Critical look at zetetics

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ABC2019
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by ABC2019 » 14/12/21, 06:52

izentrop wrote:
GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:All is said.
Yeah :!: : Shock: superficial and partisan, the complete opposite of zetetics. : Twisted:

I would not be so categorical, it is clear that the popularizers of science have a tendency to be interested only in what is a sharp border between real science and false science, and to drop sociological questions " fuzzy ", for example of who decides what is" interesting "science or not, or the sociological conditions of its production. After that, we can't do everything, and nothing prevents others from making videos on these subjects.

Besides, there are people like janic, guy or obamot who exploit these criticisms to fall back into the trap denounced by the zeteticians, the complete abandonment of the critical spirit and excessive sociologization, claiming that everything is political (well coming from political analysis is reduced to the tidal wave: all those who earn money are bad guys and all those who say bad things about them are good guys), without paying any more attention to the real criteria of scientificity - by giving the blow, grain to grind to the zététicians which they denounce, too happy to make videos to explain all their bullshit.

A mutual psychological game quite fun after all ...
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by izentrop » 14/12/21, 12:36

I summed up in 2 words
ABC2019 wrote: we have people like janic, guy or obamot who exploit these criticisms to fall back into the trap denounced by the zeteticians, the complete abandonment of the critical spirit and excessive sociologization, claiming that everything is political
Completely agree. https://www.cordial.fr/dictionnaire/def ... sation.php
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Janic » 14/12/21, 13:11

abcon
Besides, there are people like janic, guy or obamot who exploit these criticisms to fall back into the trap denounced by the zététicians, the complete abandonment of the critical spirit
this stupid speech, it's as if a prostitute pretended to be a virgin in order to sell himself better
and excessive sociologization, claiming that everything is political
obviously this is different from excessive politicization claiming that sociology is excessive ... for their financial interests !.
(finally coming from them the political analysis is reduced to the tidal wave of the daisies:
obvious lack of imagination in repeating what has been said about him! Mirror effect of narcissists!
all who make money are bad guys and all who say bad things about them are good guys),
still as stupid as usual
without paying any attention to the real criteria of scientificity
- ouarf; ouarf; the debilou which takes itself for an exclusive holder of what "scientificity" can be (this one he went to seek it far)
by giving the blow, grain to grind to the zététicians which they denounce, too happy to make videos to explain all their bullshit.
Zététicians being able to explain what they ignore, that is strong, very strong! and the weakling who believes in it, that's even stronger!
A mutual psychological game quite fun after all ...
inevitable for a funny man who makes us laugh, with his indisputable lacks of the slightest bit of knowledge in psychology and all the rest!
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 14/12/21, 14:48

Bouzo's argument: gné qui gni qui gné ... With that, the future of the world is assured ... :( : roll:
Zetetic (Nowadays): smoke screen used to cover up lies, dishonesty, vagueness and laziness of the mind.
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Ahmed » 14/12/21, 15:47

What would a non-criticism be? :?:
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Demolition in order masterfully illustrated with a certain "zetetic" created by the extreme right




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 22/12/21, 15:01

Against imposture and pseudo-rationalism
Reconnect with the ethics of disputatio and knowledge as a common horizon
Bruno Andreotti, Camille Nous

excerpts:
... the public positions taken by a milieu that I will qualify here as pseudo-rationalist, mixing “skeptics”, zeteticians 
, popularizers, “libertarian” activists, executives, engineers and young researchers, seem to me to be orthogonal in almost every way to my conceptions, which I have been teaching for more than twenty years in training modules in the scientific method by experimentation ...
... This editorial adopts the point of view of the practitioner, with an aim of objectification, on the one hand, and of alert, on the other hand, in the direction of academics, science amateurs as well as rationalists, on the attempts to deregulate the norms of scholarly truthfulness ...

Affected simplicity is a delicate sham

The social network Twitter constitutes a privileged field of observation of the constitution of a pseudo-rationalist community. If a few thousand French-speaking researchers and academics have accounts there and share scientific articles, their influence remains confined and their audience small. Most of what is written about science comes from popularization, the dissemination of press articles and the political debate around the regulation of industrial and agricultural techniques. The pseudo-rationalist community is made up of a few hundred people, hyperactive online, for the most part without scientific production (except for a few doctoral students, often in industrial thesis or resuming studies). Engineers are strongly represented there, and in particular those of large privatized public companies. There are also a few dozen farmers and around fifty “libertarian” activists, the “Ze”, forming a radicalized sub-milieu of commercial executives, traders, insurance executives, and so on. Among the salient figures of the pseudo-rationalist online milieu are three journalists, Emmanuelle Ducros (L'Opinion), Géraldine Woessner, (Le Point) and Peggy Sastre (Le Point et Causeur), a television host, Olivier Lesgourgues said Mac Lesggy, a “libertarian” entrepreneur, Laurent Alexandre, popularizing communicators from GRDF, EDF, Orano (ex-Areva), BASF and Bayer, as well as youtubers from the zetetic / skeptical movement. The #NoFakeScience forum was recently used to bring this community together. On Twitter, the “Ze”, the “Zet” and the others form a united but heterogeneous community, carrying attacks in packs and, defending themselves by adopting the posture of the digital martyr that I will describe below. Thus, the announcement of this article has earned me six threats of trial, the collection and dissemination of the few online photographs in which I appear, the search for my private address and an incredible cohort of insults.

Pseudo-rationalism is thus nourished by the frustration of senior executives who combine an attraction for science and a prolonged estrangement from its practice: the vocational training of the Grandes Écoles has never confronted them except with problems which admit pre-established computational solutions. It bears witness to the deleterious legacy of the Napoleonic system, based on competition, which never succeeded in reforming itself to come closer to the Humboldtian system, based on science.

Zététique was founded by Henri Broch in 1986 with the minitel 3615 ZET service, then reactivated in 1993 as a teaching of intellectual self-defense against charlatanism and against a supposed vogue for paranormal phenomena. Contract researcher, funded by military contracts since his thesis defended in 1978, Henri Broch has never published any scientific article in a peer-reviewed journal.. His courses are intended to be a playful popularization of the scientific method on subjects paradoxically made attractive by the spectacular nature that they intend to denounce. However, of the scientific method, as I defined it above, almost nothing remains except the objectified and reasoned reproduction of phenomena presented as paranormal. In particular, the entire collective dimension of the work of scientific truthfulness is evacuated. Zetetics claims on the contrary to transpose the scientific method to the scale of the individual as a way of apprehending his daily environment, methodical doubt and the exercise of reasoning being supposed to allow him to refute beliefs by their sole exercise. Compared to rationalism, it is not only the scientific institution which is dismissed in favor of doubt alone, but also the responsibility of the scientist in technoscientific development.
.....
In parallel with the laboratory and the teaching of the same name, zététique appears as activism with the foundation by Paul-Éric Blanrue, then a royalist activist, of the Cercle Zététique in 1993, then, in 1994, of the Cahiers de zététique under the chairmanship of honor of Henri Broch. For 10 years, the far-right positions of Paul-Éric Blanrue are known and do not pose a problem, the zetetics supposedly transcending political divisions. The exercise of doubt leads him to get closer to Robert Faurisson: Paul-Éric Blanrue becomes anti-Semitic and negationist, qualifying "the question of the gas chambers and the Jewish genocide" as "the heart of the new world religion". The split of the zetetic micro-movement in 2003, the moderate fringe, which Paul-Éric Blanrue calls the “ostrich zetetics”, founding the Zététique Observatory, led to a radicalization of the Zététique Circle; This is evidenced by the posting of a video promoting Robert Faurisson and the resumption of accusations of plagiarism against Albert Einstein, issued by the Clock Club. In 2010, Paul-Éric Blanrue launched with Jean Bricmont, from the French Association for Scientific Information (AFIS), a petition against the Gayssot law, quickly signed by Bruno Gollnisch, Alain Soral, Dieudonné M'Bala M'Bala, Robert Faurisson and the zeteticians who remained in the Circle. Paul-Éric Blanrue today calls himself a “libertarian” and remains “specialized in the detection of hoaxes”.
.
However, it is necessary to wonder about the permanence of a porosity of the pseudo-rationalist community to political confusionism. Thus, Alain de Benoist was a member of the Rationalist Union, where he was introduced by the Vichyste Louis Rougier, who had been the author of 18 entries in the rationalist dictionary in the 1960s. Laurent Dauré is simultaneously a member of the board of directors of AFIS and a member of the board of the conspiracy party of François Asselineau, the Popular and Republican Union (UPR), after having been an activist in the far-right party of Paul- Marie Couteaux, Rally for the Independence of France (RIF). Yououtubeur Aurélien Enthoven, from the skeptical M-Gigantoraptor rebuttal channel, has also committed to the UPR. The claim of the Zeteticians to go beyond ideologies and the confidence placed in their posture as fact-checkers in the individual exercise of doubt act as facilitators of political confusionism. Arrested after a round table on Zététique with YouTubers close to the New Right of Alain de Benoist, the review Krisis and Alain Soral and with Serge Bret-Morel, ex-president of the Zététique Observatory, the Zététicien Youtubeur Thomas C. Durand, of the channel La Tronche en Biais, justified himself thus to the “right-thinking Twitter people”: “Certain activists […], obviously, believed that the zététique must in a certain way belong to them. […] Let us share the tools of critical thinking with everyone. " 
.
the term "climatoscepticism" was coined in reference to the skeptical method and introduced in France by Charles Champetier, said Charles Müller, former right-hand man of Alain de Benoist at the Groupement de recherche et d'études pour la civilization européenne (GRECE) and to the far-right review, Elements. His climate-negationist views were disseminated by the AFIS review, thanks to his proximity to the libertarian journalist Peggy Sastre, with whom he co-wrote two books and who was then on the AFIS board of directors.
The full, fascinating article: https://www.cairn.info/revue-zilsel-2020-2-page-15.htm
You don't have to be out of polytechnic to understand why Zombizy, why Tryphon, why Végaz ... Bouzo being out of the competition because caught up with the madness of placarded slackers to whom all that remains is the "it is the one who says who is".
Sincerely yours, gentlemen who have NOTHING left! : Mrgreen:
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by Obamot » 22/12/21, 20:39

ABC2019 wrote:Besides, we have people like janic, guy or obamot who exploit these criticisms to fall back into the trap denounced by the zeteticians,

Close, WHAT CRITICS? YOU DO NOT ANSWER QUESTIONS or IGNORE ANSWERS - / - MESSAGES - definitely your penchant for the “Sophistic tightrope walking"Now make you delve into lies and other slander.

I feel like an icy wind of wouacances ...


(c) definition by Remundo
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by izentrop » 23/12/21, 00:25

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:Against imposture and pseudo-rationalism
Reconnect with the ethics of disputatio and knowledge as a common horizon
Bruno Andreotti, Camille Nous
Probably a jealous person who takes himself seriously https://menace-theoriste.fr/croisade-de ... onalistes/
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Re: A critical look at zetetics




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 23/12/21, 00:28

But of course, and then who invents, delirium, fakes the news, eh, valet? It's funny because he's not the only one to have noticed ... : Twisted:

Ps: Is that all you've got under your feet? A twisted response from the incompetent pathological liar on duty who comes to defame and attack Andreotti even before this editorial is online? LOOOOOOOOL !!!!
Andreotti: "So the announcement of this article has earned me six threats of lawsuit, the collection and dissemination of the few photographs online in which I appear, the search for my private address and an incredible cohort of insults." CQFD, honesty made sect, zetetic fanatic!
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Obamot wrote: Apologize for all the wrong you've done! Apologize here right away — especially to Christophe — and try not to do it again. It's not a “gag”. It's your only chance. If you wait too long you will pay a very, very high price later, a price you don't even suspect.
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Re: Demolition in order masterfully illustrated with a certain "zetetic" created by the extreme right




by ABC2019 » 23/12/21, 06:26

GuyGadeboisLeRetour wrote:You don't have to be out of polytechnic to understand why Zombizy, why Tryphon, why Végaz ... Bouzo being out of the competition because caught up with the madness of placarded slackers to whom all that remains is the "it is the one who says who is".
Sincerely yours, gentlemen who have NOTHING left! : Mrgreen:

ah owl finally a text which denounces the collusion of some with the extreme right, it is rare on this forum !!!

I applaud with both hands, moreover, I myself sintered with the head of the Grenoble Zététique Observatory, Richard Monvoisin, who had invited Jean Bricmont to give a conference at the University - for those who do not know , he is a theoretical physicist who became known for having denounced with Sokal the "intellectual deceptions" of pseudo-scientific philosophers (he was not wrong on this point) but then drifted towards an obsessively anti-Semitic discourse that he spreads on his FB page (Bricmont presents himself as extreme left but it is the typical "red-brown" who continuously sends warm encouragement to extreme right politicians, who supported Trump, Asselineau, etc ... .)

Indeed there are sometimes collusions of zetetics with the extreme right as for Blanrue, who used the vocabulary of zetetics to disseminate nauseating messages - except that it has nothing to do with the initial zetetics. Apart from that I have never defended in principle any association AFIS, OZ, etc ... I never consider that a person must be right "in principle", neither AFIS, nor Raoult, nor anyone.

Apart from that, the author B. Andreotti is himself far from being immune from any reproach as the link of d'Izzy shows it, and also floods the emails of the academics of his group "JP Vernant" which is strongly ideologized and often caricature. In this field, it is a competition of "do what I say, do not do what I do", like what is happening on this forum.
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