View port of the reactor under full load

[Brolensky]

Does the charge really matter to you? my engine was running idle.
For the passage to the bench, I know someone who has measured a drop in consumption from 22.5L / h to 19.5 on a tractor at 70 hp to the PTO but I do not know if he zeroed without pantone or without water. I'll ask the question, I'll keep you up to date.

[Other]

Hello

Does the charge really matter to you?

Diesel running at 3000 or 4000 rpm without load (empty)
is nothing more than an air pump to which a drop of diesel is injected with each combustion.

When the engine is loaded, the fuel injection is more consistent, the combustion is different (bad at the extreme acceleration of a diesel it smokes) there is more heat in games

It suffices to measure the exhaust temperature; it is directly proportional to the diesel fuel injected (consumption can be measured just by measuring the temperature of the exhaust gases on a diesel.
A panton works when there is enough heat on the reactor
the efficiency of water doping is better when more diesel is injected, a diesel under high load is reduced efficiency and it is there, that water doping is most effective


Andre

[Christophe]

For the passage to the bench, I know someone who has measured a drop in consumption from 22.5L / h to 19.5 on a tractor at 70 hp to the PTO but I do not know if he zeroed without pantone or without water.

Uh are you on your numbers there?

Because:

a) a tractor of 70 hp at full load consumes "at worst" 14 to 15L / h ...

b) mounting on a Perkins 2-236 (70hp) consumed less than 4L / h after modification (and more than 5 before) ...

I repeat: nobody has ever had good results (that is to say: significant consumption in real use) results on bench ... while there are in the fields!

Stop wasting our time with a bench which does not reproduce actual conditions with accuracy !! No offense to die-hard engine manufacturers but you have to know how to question yourself ...

Reflections here: https://www.econologie.com/forums/dopage-pas ... t4099.html

[Flytox]

Bonjour Christophe

I repeat: nobody has ever had good results (that is to say: significant consumption in real use) results on bench ... while there are in the fields!

Stop wasting our time with a bench which does not reproduce actual conditions with accuracy !! No offense to die-hard engine manufacturers but you have to know how to question yourself ...

The fact of not having output anything positive on the test bench may be due to the way in which the control of the bench is made / used. When using "speed" regulation of the engine, the result is not the same as with "cubic characteristic" regulation which regulates power while letting the engine speed stabilize "where it wants". (The power absorbed by the bench increases as the cube of the rpm. This is comparable to the power absorbed by a moving vehicle or a propeller in the air).

Likewise, the slightly sophisticated benches can be programmed to make load variation cycles whose profile can be invented so that it resembles our use. With this kind of tool, I will be surprised that we are not able to illustrate a difference in consumption.

A+

[Other]

Hello

I repeat: nobody has ever had good results (that is to say: significant consumption in real use) results on bench ... while there are in the fields!

Let’s stop wasting our time with a bench setting that doesn’t reproduce real conditions with accuracy !! No offense to die-hard engine manufacturers but you have to know how to question yourself ...

In a field the cultivator spends a full day on his tractor.

On a bench I have rarely seen tests done for 24 hours straight .. this is the difference, for those who have experienced water doping for a long time, they know that there are nuances in terms of performance, I have never obtained good results on short 20km journeys, but on journeys lasting a few hours it becomes interesting.
It is difficult with our small means to measure, to know at what time of the jet, and what are the factors that precisely cause that sometimes the yield drops. We have always attributed this to temperature, but there are other factors that influence performance.
Which makes me say that if on a trip of 350km we arrive at 32% savings knowing that we do not always operate at the best performance, that these values ​​are an average, that there is the possibility of doing better.
It is almost impossible for the big manufacturers not to do this exercise for weeks on a bench.
they know the results ..
they never publish totally negative results, even they avoid talking about it, because they favor the ERG which is less problematic than embarking a water circuit,
let us not forget that in the ERG a certain part of water vapor resulting from combustion is returned there to the engine, according to the quantity of exhaust gas recirculated we approach the quantity of water which one sends in a water doping ..
On a diesel I tested exhaust return with pulverisaton in the reactor for more than 1000 km the results are good
but too many black particles which dirty the reactor during the cold phase of the reactor at each start-up.

Andre

[crispus]

Hi André,

On a diesel I tested exhaust return with pulverisaton in the reactor for more than 1000 km the results are good
but too many black particles which dirty the reactor during the cold phase of the reactor at each start-up ...

And by using a 3-way valve, like the EGR which only opens when the engine is hot, would you perhaps avoid this fouling phenomenon?

[Flytox]

Hello André

On a bench I have rarely seen tests done for 24 hours straight .. this is the difference, for those who have experienced water doping for a long time, they know that there are nuances in terms of performance, I have never obtained good results on short 20km journeys, but on journeys lasting a few hours it becomes interesting.

Perhaps an explanation for the poor performance on "short" journeys. On my R19, I made some temperature measurements on the intake manifold. It seems that it takes a long time / km before reaching its "cruising" temperature.

I start and drive about 15 km normally. When I go back to a fire the car does not respond well as when it is very hot. However, the LDR is in the usual area of ​​the hot engine after 6 or 7 km. If I measure the temperature of the intake manifold, it does not exceed 30-35 °.

After 30 or 40 km the collector temperature reaches 45 ° and there it works well. (Flexible and silent motor)

I stop and wait about 10-12 minutes and re measure the temperature in the same place before starting, I have 85 - 90 °. The heat of the cylinder head invades the collector.

I restart and the car runs super well. I must re-measure but it seems to me that the temperature does not drop below 50 ° even after 100 km more.

This makes me think that you can drive a long time without having stabilized the intake temperature and that ten degrees on the intake manifold feels on the performance. (all these measures without steam)

A+

[Other]

Hello

I start and drive about 15 km normally. When I go back to a fire the car does not respond well as when it is very hot. However, the LDR is in the usual area of ​​the hot engine after 6 or 7 km. If I measure the temperature of the intake manifold, it does not exceed 30-35 °.

After 30 or 40 km the collector temperature reaches 45 ° and there it works well. (Flexible and silent motor)

An original way to isolate the exhaust manifold is to put a thin stainless steel sheet inside the exhaust duct
while channeling heat around the reactor.
This is what I did on my reactor in addition to insulating the exterior with ceramic wool and aluminum foil
The steam outlet temperature is practically within 150c, even in town it never drops below 100c
The air temperature of the collector admissible, I don't know? I have a turbo without intercooler, I know that when I stop the car, after driving 110kmh it is difficult to endure when touched with your fingers. The little (steam air) at 150c 190c that I add should only raise the intake temperature enormously



Andre

[crispus]

Hi Flytox,

However, the LDR is in the usual area of ​​the hot engine after 6 or 7 km.
[...]
This makes me think that you can drive a long time without having stabilized the intake temperature and that ten degrees on the intake manifold feels on the performance. (all these measures without steam)

It seems to me that the engine can only be considered truly "hot" when the thermostat opens and lets the LDR go to the radiator?

[Other]

Hello

It seems to me that the engine can only be considered truly "hot" when the thermostat opens and lets the LDR go to the radiator?

Hot reactor is different, on a descent the engine remains hot, but the exhaust cools quickly.
Personally when the reactor outlet temperature is hot I consider it hot
in a hill, the heat takes a certain time to settle at the outlet and it remains a certain time at the start of the descent, you must learn to master the inertia.
As my water injection is controlled by the turbo I am not mistaken, but I lose a little at low speed.
When the turbo pressurizes there is heat.

Andre