What recourse boiler oversizing?

[mariepoussin]

currently we have no regulation on our boiler.

The water temperature can be manually adjusted between 65 and 73 ° C. We always leave it at min, 65 ° c.
when the water temperature reaches 80 ° C, the boiler shuts down and restarts when the water reaches 58 ° C. (what happens with outside temperatures close to 0-5 ° C every 40 min approximately, to be specified)

In the quote, he did not sell us any regulation. Only thermostatic valves on the radiators that he no longer considers useful to install today (not suitable for our boiler according to him!). We bought some and installed them and it works tip top with cold outside temperatures: more overheated parts and continuous boiler operation. The problem will happen when the temperatures go up a few degrees ...

A week ago he wanted to install a room thermostat. Now he wants to install a regulation. When I ask him what type of regulation, he remains elusive ... more all this does not appear in the initial quote!

Before adding a regulation which was not foreseen in its estimate (I don't know if it will invoice me) and in this context (all the elements appearing in its estimate were posed and the installation does not work optimally (chopped from 0 ° c outside approximately), the feeling of scam compared to noise and power, a device not labeled that nobody knows and which costs 6000 € HT while it sells from MCZ according to its website), we told him STOP in the idea of ​​making an inventory and having its current installation appraised.

Today we are at the wall, we have to find an expert, and we would really like to avoid justice ...

[Did67]

. We bought some and installed them and it works tip top with cold outside temperatures: more overheated parts and continuous boiler operation. The problem will happen when the temperatures go up a few degrees ...

A week ago he wanted to install a room thermostat. Now he wants to install a regulation. When I ask him what type of regulation, he remains elusive ... more all this does not appear in the initial quote!

Before adding a regulation that was not provided for in his quote (I don't know if he will bill me for it) ...

Good...

1) thermostatic taps: this is the most stupid regulation possible, but which works (with some drawbacks ...). So no doubt, overheating question, they "write" and everything is in order ...

2) I don't think there is a link with the fact that the boiler works continuously: that is very cold ... All modulating boilers, as soon as the temperature drops, eventually arrive at a time when the need for the house is greater than the lowest power; it then turns continuously, remaining on the lowest level ... Normal and logical.

3) Of course, when the temperatures go up, it will go back to "on / off" mode.
Which is not in itself shocking!

My Okofen 15 kW flanged to 13 kW spends most of its time running in "on-off" mode. Until the arrival of the cold snap, that was the case.

It is "studied for", as the saying goes.

4) It is likely, but it must be verified, that your boiler is equipped with a 3-way motorized avnne. Therefore, it would need a regulation (which, on many boilers, must be ordered as an option; at Okofen too: there are different to adapt to all kinds of situations). So that there isn't one, it's noprmla. That he forgot it is a misunderstanding of pellet boilers no doubt.

So provided that you have a motorized 3-way valve, adding a regulation is normal.

But then you also need an outdoor sodne.

Possibly a room sensor (which without regulation would be useless, because it acts on ... regulation!).

But at that time, regulation by thermostatic valves becomes unnecessary. There, your boy would have then right ...

In short, it seems to me that you are the guinea pigs of a gar who discovers and does not understand everything. In any case not all at the same time!

5) There is a dispute: the regulation is, in itself, "billable", like any accessory to the boiler not automatically included, but as he forgot, it is not clear.

If he looked for a solution, he would make a commercial gesture ???

I had a comparable situation when installing a solar water heater. The boy had visited, made his estimate. During the works, he discovers that my PER pipes are a super strong German model, not having the standard dimension. He must look for fittings, which he invoices me in addition. I refused and I was successful.

[dedeleco]

You have only paid 30% and therefore you risk having an application for interim measures to pay the remaining 60%, and then having to hire a lawyer to defend yourself, advise you, and present the facts that you measure yourself, even without an expert, (a bailiff's report may make them legally valid), and the request for a judicial expert will be requested by the instalalteur, who will have to pay his salary.
The objective facts are simple:
excessive power, minimum at 7,5KW = 1,6Kilos of pellets = 1lilo in 36minutes and max of power at 22,5KW = 1kilo burned in 12minutes, to check by yourself at the maximum of power.
Excessive noise measured by an absolute sound level meter (the usher can have a sound level meter if he is efficient, like a camera).

In addition, the thermostatic valves are sufficient to regulate, correctly, the boiler oscillating between 58 and 80 ° C, very quickly, if it has nothing to heat.
This time gives, with its inverse, the power of the boiler.
It must be divided by 3 if you put it at its maximum power, and you will be sure that its maximum power is 3x7,5 = 22,5KW if this time is reduced to 40min / 3 = 13,3minutes.

The thermostat will not change anything, especially if its hysteresis is not adjustable (difference between Tmax minus T min adjustable).


So, you have to cover yourself against a legal attack to make you pay the final price, with the real facts proving the refusal and the inability to ensure perfect completion, overpowered boiler unsuitable, not in accordance with the quote and too noisy to change, with the installer refusing to supply a cheaper and almost 3 times less powerful boiler.
.

[Philippe Schutt]

Did67 is not a boiler, but a large hydro stove. The on-board electronics do not manage a motorized valve.
The minimum speed should be 4,7kw, which corresponds to a consumption of 1kg / h. If the stove consumes more, this should be corrected. However before the cold snap the conso was 2 bags / 24h, or at least 6kg too much. More if we take into account the stops. so at least 20%.
Clamping is only simple for maximum power, one adjustment is sufficient. But we lose on the relationship between the mini and the maxi. Reducing the minimum power also implies a reduction in the size of the brazier.

[dedeleco]

Considering the logical remark of P Schutt, we deduce that the boiler is original at 22,5KW flanged to 18 or less 14,7KW, with a minimum of 7,5KW and therefore totally unusable given its excessive minimum power in addition to its unacceptable noise.

So you have to measure by consumption the maximum and minimum powers by the real consumption of pellets and if the ratio is a little less than 2 instead of 3, then the scam is total by this manufacturer !!!

Proof that the boiler from 22,5 KW to 14KW originally, flanged without changing its home, is totally unsuitable for this house !!

[Did67]

Did67 is not a boiler, but a large hydro stove. The on-board electronics do not manage a motorized valve. .

Effectively. I just read a long multilingual Thermorossi brochure. It is a question of varying the temperature of the boiler according to the season and of the optional room thermostat (which undoubtedly acts on switching on and off and on modulation).

I haven't seen anything that looks like a 3-way valve control.

[yet I seem to have seen that on a diagram of a hydro stove one day, having remarked to me that it was nothing more or less than a well integrated, well designed boiler, with a glass door to see the flame...]

[mariepoussin]

Currently at mild temperature and with a set temperature of 65 ° C, the temperature of the return water rises to 80 ° c, then switches off and the stove restarts when the water drops to 58 ° C.

It's how it works, you can't fix it otherwise.

Can I attack my installer in relation to a risk of burns for our young child who begins to walk with radiators and water at 80 ° C?

Is there a standard?

[dedeleco]

Currently at mild temperature and with a set temperature of 65 ° C, the temperature of the return water rises to 80 ° c, then switches off and the stove restarts when the water drops to 58 ° C.

It's how it works, you can't fix it otherwise.

Can I attack my installer in relation to a risk of burns for our young child who begins to walk with radiators and water at 80 ° C?

Is there a standard?

Certainly, even for cookers, by sending him a registered letter with acknowledgment of receipt, making him fully responsible for serious burns of your child from 1 to 3 years old at 80 ° C instead of 50 ° C max, with having to pay injuries for the whole life of the child, (million €), then seeing consumer organizations and above all asking their home insurance to intervene with expertise and justice to avoid a serious accident by inevitable burn, which will cost much more !!

[mariepoussin]

Thank you for this answer, is there a standard, a legal text for this temperature of 50 ° C max?

Otherwise, the company of our installer is Qualibois approved. Is there, in your opinion, a means of attack on this side?

[dedeleco]

Maybe not the norm but advice for parents:
http://www.bmlweb.org/enfant.html
http://www.safekidscanada.ca/Profession ... Index.aspx


To remind the installer:

Children are particularly vulnerable to burns because their skin is thinner than that of adults. The skin of a child burns 4 times faster and deeper than that of an adult, at the same temperature

Anyway, if a situation is actually dangerous, the installer is totally responsible, especially warned by registered letter, 80 ° C instantly burns !! Never wrote 80 ° C in his quote and child prohibited !!!.
Require max 50 to 55 ° C already hot !!