ANSES: LEDs and the risks associated with their use

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Obamot
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Re: led




by Obamot » 28/10/10, 14:29

zorglub wrote:
Tell us how you got the info that would not surprise me if it was via an email


sources:
the world, the figaro
but nothing received by mail

that's what we find on google about led


: Mrgreen: What we would like to know are the doctors who took part in this (if any, there was, worthy of the name) as well as clinical studies.

When we see what incapacities is constituted the National Agency for Food Safety, the Environment and Labor is no longer surprised at anything. If we list the devitalised foods they do not say anything about and the worse things they sell:
- carcinogenic additives prohibited elsewhere ...
- margarine with hydrogenated grease do you want it here ...
- edible oils cut with waste oil (c / o Lesieur who had bought adulterated stock to cut them and put them on sale) ah but they would say to me, it was not illegal ... it was in the "tolerances" .... But they did not ask the consumers if they were okay with putting in their salads ...

But we can do without studies.

Everyone knows that kids have a holy horror of doing things that hurt them. So long fix a source of intense light such as the sun, they know it's not done! I do not see why they would fix LEDs? It's absurd! At worst just call them to order, but everyone knows that!

On the other hand, for those who need a very high quality lighting, these are all indicated, while the incandescent or compact fluorescent lamps left you an approximate halo, the LEDs make you re-run of what you you enlighten with. Try with ads with photos and text printed in offset: examine in detail and compare the quality of colors, their neutrality, contours, the raster, the effect 3D ... It is without comment! LEDs are winning all the way with the added bonus that they do not tire you anymore.

As for surprise that they have invaded supermarkets, excuse me but it's a bit normal since those incandescent have been banned for sale ...
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 10 / 10, 14: 38, 1 edited once.
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Re: led




by Christophe » 28/10/10, 14:35

Obamot wrote: : Mrgreen: What we would like to know are the doctors who participated in this (if any) and clinical studies.

But we can do without studies.


Ben Obamot?

There is the integral study (310) pages just above ...

Wonder if you would not miss my message ...
Good reading! : Cheesy:

Christophe wrote:Here are the official reports:

- Opinion and report "Health effects of lighting systems using light-emitting diodes (LEDs)" (310 pages anyway ... good appetite)
- The press kit (more digestible)

Well I think we have everything in hand to analyze seriously this problem ... : Cheesy:


Obamot wrote:Everyone knows that kids have a holy horror of doing things that hurt them. So long fix a source of intense light such as the sun, they know it's not done! I do not see why they would fix LEDs? It's absurd! At worst just call them to order, but everyone knows that!


Uh bad argument ...

UV rays are cancer-causing and yet how many "hens" are sunbathing in this way? Besides, there are still plenty of working solariums (what is the police doing?) ... Then if the children avoided everything that hurts them ... it would be known ...


Obamot wrote:On the other hand, for those who need a very high quality lighting, these are all indicated, while the incandescent or compact fluorescent lamps left you an approximate halo, the LEDs make you re-run of what you you enlighten with. Try with ads with photos and text printed in offset: examine in detail and compare the quality of colors, their neutrality, contours, the raster, the effect 3D ... It is without comment! LEDs are winning all the way with the added bonus that they do not tire you anymore.


Mmm in my opinion you do not know the economic bulbs in natural light...

Because they spit white ... to see the details is the best!
In addition she is less tired (I have in my office):

economic and LED bulbs

Obamot wrote:As for surprise that they have invaded supermarkets, excuse me but it's a bit normal since those incandescent have been banned for sale ...


Uh in Switzerland too? It's not Europe though?
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by Obamot » 28/10/10, 14:45

Excuse me, but while you were posting your message, I was editing "medics worthy of the name", and give examples ...

As for the LEDs, I only use that to check our editing work as a reference light to give my work to the printing house and for the proofs (as well as neon certified "daylight "). As soon as we are at 5200 ° Kelvins we could not be more "fair". It is certainly possible that there are other sources at this color temperature, but it will necessarily be more expensive than the ones I found (~ 5 €). So I will not comment on something I do not know, however I noticed that with LEDs, it was full of detail, such as I had never seen before ... Our chemist, former researcher at the 'Institut Batelle and professor at the uni, had also been totally convinced, to such an extent that he had bought all the stock for him, it was necessary to recommend some :D

We have bilateral agreements with Europe, to be euro-compatible, it allows us to export goods without the risk of having merchandise excluded for export. But here we still have incandescent lamps for a while ... :D
Last edited by Obamot the 28 / 10 / 10, 14: 51, 1 edited once.
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by Christophe » 28/10/10, 14:48

Obamot wrote:As soon as we are at 5200 ° Kelvins we cannot be more "fair".


Just to contradict you: the sun is 6400 ° K normally ...: Cheesy:

But beyond 4500-5000 ° K it's hard to see the nuance for the profane eye ...
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by Obamot » 28/10/10, 14:55

[Edit: In photography, a correction of the BDB at] 4500 ° K [gives a result still] too "blue", and gives a rendering "cold" to represent colors "fair"! ... Already [a correction to] 5200 ° K is judged too "Cold" according to the tastes of some ... (While it is in principle: "THE reference" [correction] of color temperature [to obtain a result] "neutral")

You do not do high-flying photography ... (? Si?) Take a look at the answers of this thread ...> given by pros in the field, on this forum "benchmark" if you're interested.
To reproduce the correct colors (neutral with a gray 18% chart to adjust the BDB for example) it is necessary to set [its correction] to 5150 ° Kelvins, very precisely (with the ad hoc lighting). Finally I say that for our "Workflow" with a perfectly calibrated graphics chain and ICC profiles (and if you're lucky enough not to work with Canon which has rotten colors due to poorly managed reading noise and a factory setting made to pamper fashion photographers or in sport who like a swarthy rendering of "skin tones") after each sees noon at his door : Mrgreen: ).

In the professional world, 6500 ° Kelvins, this [is not as absolute a rule as you think, because] ... with that, you're in AWB and you're in the scenery point of view colorimetry, I assure you ... Or you're bumping like beginners with UNI-WB and it's even worse ... : Mrgreen:

From +/- 100 ° K (ie 200 ° K), you start to see slight differences in the nuances ... But sufficient beyond, to lose your bearings when you try to fix on a " gray point "," white point "," black point "... neutral!

It is not a question of "personal tastes" eh ... But "of contractual tests", or it is better to remain "in the nails" point of view of tolerance. Without being pro, with 6500 ° K it is not reasonable to adjust the magenta-green axis to land on its feet [taking into account only this value => because there may be differences between incident light and light thoughtful, everything depends on the color of the walls, for example: the lighting by LEDs is very directional, which makes it possible to override an environment in value of illuminants of mixed T ° C], but it is up to everyone to experiment ...
Last edited by Obamot the 29 / 10 / 10, 13: 55, 2 edited once.
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by Did67 » 28/10/10, 20:22

FYI, it went to the TV Journal of France 2 two days ago ... In short.
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by I Citro » 28/10/10, 23:44

Christophe wrote:(It's on the Afsset, well known while ANSES was an agency I did not know)
I saw the news report ...
Watching TV rarely, and each time with a very critical eye, I was struck by the construction of the report ...
The subject is brought by an announced risk, creator of anxiety (it is a classic mode of operation of the media) and it ends up presenting this unknown or newly created agency ... I immediately deduced that:
the purpose of the report was to build awareness at ANSES ...

I have many doubts for the scientific validity of the postulates made ... I even suspect a maneuver by "anti LED" lobbies ...
Fluorescent "daylight" lighting (from 5000 to 6000 ° K) has been around for several decades ...
I would be more inclined to believe what is stated if it had been in comparative form ... (LED versus fluorescent or halogen).

Personally, I like "white light" LEDs for the quality of color reproduction, as when I was working in a photo lab ...
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by Christophe » 28/10/10, 23:48

citro wrote:LED versus fluorescent or halogen


It's too much honor Monseigneur

https://www.econologie.com/forums/test-essai ... 10087.html

: Mrgreen:

: Mrgreen:
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by Obamot » 29/10/10, 14:46

citro wrote:
Christophe wrote:
Obamot wrote:Since we are at 5200 ° Kelvins one cannot be more "fair".


Just to contradict you: the sun is 6400 ° K normally...: Cheesy:
Fluorescent "daylight" lighting (from 5'000 to 6'000 ° K) exist since several decades ...

Personally, I like "white light" LEDs for the quality of color reproduction, as when I was working in a photo lab ...

There if you induct a "variable" value for the color temperature (Tc ° K) "daylight", we did not leave the hostel, but I will try an explanation (I had to edit my previous message to complete my post : Mrgreen: )

It is true that Tc ° K varies throughout a sunny day!
But in reality, the term "day light" is not very clear, since as you recall, there are several values ​​...

Image
Source: wiki

* match flame 1'700 ° K
* candle flame 1'850 ° K
* Sun on the horizon 2'000 ° K
* 2'200 ° K sodium lamp
* incandescent lamp 2'400 to 3'300 ° K
* warm white fluorescent lamp 2'700 to 3'000 ° K
* Metal halide lamps 3'000 to 4'200 ° K
* LCD screen 2'900 to 6500 ° K
* halogen lamp 3'000 to 3'200 ° K
* studio lamp "CP" 3'350 ° K
* studio lamp "fotofloods" etc 3'400 ° K
* Neutral white fluorescent lamp 3'900 to 4'200 ° K
* xenon arc lamp, moonlight 4'100 ° K
* Sun at the zenith 5'800 ° K
* daylight fluorescent lamp 5'000 to 6'100 ° K
* "typical" daylight, electronic flash 5'500 to 6'000 ° K
* LED lamp: depends on the manufacture of 5'000 to 7'500 ° K according to Philips
* natural light 5'000 ° K (D50 or "horizon") or 6'500 ° K (D65 "cloudy sky")
* CRT screen 9'300 ° K
All these values ​​of Tc ° K are mentioned only as an indication, considerable variations can appear, for example because of the dilapidation of the illuminant ...

Image
Source: wiki.

Beware of confusion: it seems to me that if we correct a color temperature (Tc ° K), to have a colder rendering in digital photography, the value must be lowered to have the opposite effect in the spectrum! Synthesis of additive colors => RGB:

Image

Since each illuminant has an intensity and a natural frequency range as demonstrated above, I really do not see how LEDs would be more dangerous than any other illuminant! And probably even less possible to demonstrate it by comparison! Question lighting quality, they are to highly advise.
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by bamboo » 29/10/10, 15:13

Obamot wrote:As each illuminant has its own intensity, I really do not see how LEDs would be more dangerous than others!


This is because the pupil closes as a function of the amount of visible light that happens to it.
If you receive UVs, the pupil does not close, the retina takes all UVs "in the face" and burns itself.

This is a problem that already exists with sunglasses that do not filter the UVs well enough (hence the standards that exist today)
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