EDF increased 20% of electricity tariffs in three years

[Did67]

we must also accustom them to pay the price for the future total privatization.

On this point too, I agree.

Exactly, for EdF to be privatized with benefits for the State (still the main shareholder), the company must be "profitable". So that it has copious margins.

So that means that there could be complicity between the management of EdF and the government, which could concede a consequent increase in tariffs, so as to restore the margins, so as to be able to sell expensive (always from the point of view of the State).

Note that the government, given its declarations, is not so hostile, in a very difficult context! Nobody said there was no question of these increases!

[jlt22]

My EDF invoice May 2009 (Brittany)

2 month subscription 9,8 € HT
Consumption 603 kwh at 0,0803 48,42 € HT
Local tax 5,52 € HT
VAT at 10,95 € 73,97 subtotal including tax

CSPE 603 ​​kwh at 0,0045 2,71 € HT
VAT at 0,53 3,24 € subtotal tax included

Total payable including VAT 77,21 € incl.

Cost of nuclear decommissioning and time to complete it:
http://seaus.free.fr/spip.php?article171

Or type in Google: "Dismantling of the Brennilis nuclear power plant"

[I Citro]

- Citro: yes, sorry that this also strikes the users of electric vehicles. That said, let's be honest, the cost of energy seems to me to weigh little in the costs of the vehicle (additional cost with the purchase + renewal of the batteries) or am I wrong ??? So even if the electricity doubled, is that really what would lead electric vehicles ???? I have a doubt.

Well in my case I am not in a hurry to know the cost of replacing my batteries, some of which are from 2000 ...
For the purchase prices of my EVs, these are occasions at prices related to their condition, neither excessive nor inexpensive, but much cheaper than untraceable new vehicles (in cars).

The cost of electricity consumption is not negligible.
We read everywhere € 1 / 100km, that's wrong!
I currently consume 2.65 € of electricity per 100km to which must be added the consumption of petrol for heating the passenger compartment in winter. i.e. a global budget of € 3,15 / 100km after 7 months and 11.000km.

Certainly, no commercial thermal vehicle arrives at this consumption budget, but it is not negligible ...
So even on my consumption, I try to be vigilant ...

[Did67]

JLT:

we have the same rates (cost of kWh or CSPE rate) but not the same local taxes!

I did not take the time to read your entire document on the dismantling of Brennilis ... It is impressive!

But everyone will understand that being nuclear today is an ostrich policy ...

Brennilis was only one very small reactor ... And we still don't know how to do it! Current plants are generally 3 or 4 units, much larger ...

I still think that electricity is not paid for what it should be. And that a doubling in ten years is not just an idiocy (even if I repeat this figure when it is completely at random!).

[Did67]

The cost of electricity consumption is not negligible. : roll:
We read everywhere € 1 / 100km, that's wrong!
I currently consume 2.65 € of electricity per 100km to which must be added the consumption of petrol for heating the passenger compartment in winter. i.e. a global budget of € 3,15 / 100km after 7 months and 11.000km.

Certainly, no commercial thermal vehicle arrives at this consumption budget, but it is not negligible ...

Here I am very surprised! Thank you for this data!

And so, I wrote a nice bullshit !!!


PS: no thermal vehicle? To have !

Just for fun: I equip a C1 1.0 i petrol with LPG.

Theoretical "mixed" consumption = 4,5 l / 100 km (for info, my driving style for daily trips gives me a verified consumption = mixed consumption given by the manufacturers; on the road, I do significantly less than the "mixed" ).

LPG overconsumption (verified on C5): 20%; i.e. 5,4 l of LPG / 100 km

Current price of LPG: € 0,58 / liter

i.e. 3,13 € / 100 km

Cost of the machine: around € 8 (some options, 000-door version)

Cost of the transfromation: € 2 (with promo - € 875) - government aid of € 300.

In short: final cost: less than € 9 for a new car, emitting less than a Prius. But smaller !!!

Without an option, in the 3-door version, there is less than € 8 (currently, with scrapping and eco bonuses).

But hey: better than the Prius, no particles, much less CO and NOx, no more expensive than your electric (at today's prices) but I stay with fossil energy ... Snif!

[I Citro]

Here I am very surprised! Thank you for this data!
And so, I wrote a nice bullshit !!!

PS: no thermal vehicle? To have !
Just for fun: I equip a C1 1.0 i petrol with LPG.

Theoretical "mixed" consumption = 4,5 l / 100 km (for info, my driving style for daily trips gives me a verified consumption = mixed consumption given by the manufacturers; on the road, I do significantly less than the "mixed" ).

LPG overconsumption (verified on C5): 20%; i.e. 5,4 l of LPG / 100 km
Current price of LPG: € 0,58 / liter
i.e. 3,13 € / 100 km

I love this kind of exchanges, it's super constructive.
I will however put a downside.
The C1 GPL is still just a project on which you lack perspective.
I traveled 200.000 km on LPG for the wrong reasons. Tax reasons that favor pollution and allow lower taxes. However, I thank the LPG for having led me to this forum through other sites (from forum gpl fievez to quanthomme).
My current LPG rudder, which has not driven much since we have 2 electrics, has traveled 106 km on LPG.
For a purchase price of € 2500 (a little expensive) at 110.000km.
Its weighted fuel cost is 9.5 € per 100km and its consumption of 12.9l / 100km.
In 5 years it cost:
- € 5.300 in purchase, maintenance, insurance ...
- € 8.400 in fuel
i.e. 13.700 € in total which gives a PRK of 0.16 € / km or 16 € / 100km.

Today, or I imagine living in sobriety, I would no longer buy a Safrane but also not a C1 for my family journeys which are outside the scope of my 106 electrics.
Maybe a Dacia Sandero type vehicle ... and more.
It will always be a matter of compromise.

By the way, we are "a little" out of order.

[Did67]

Yes, we are HS. However, I would still like to refine ...

I also have experience with a C5 converted to LPG a little over a year ago. Almost 30 km on LPG. Unfortunately, I did not record everything.

But my average "equivalent in gasoline" consumption (given by the on-board computer) is around 8 l of gasoline / 100 km (I am a "cool" driver). The LPG reading at the pump is regularly between 9,8 l of LPG and 10,2 l ... So + 20%.

My C1 is "provisional" (it is awaiting delivery). I assume that my consumption will be the "mixed" indicated by the manufacturer and that my overconsumption will be that observed with the C5 ...

And so, I was very surprised to find a "fuel" cost equivalent to the one you give for the electric.

My challenge - intellectually, I'm talking about - is to do better than the Prius for 3 times less! I had no idea of ​​"beating" or equaling the electric! Above all, I would not want to dissuade someone from going electric. I rather see the driver alone in his Prius!

I had also studied the Sandero. But for me, either I ride alone or with my wife, possibly a child, so the C1 is enough; either it's the "family outing" kind of migration and there, the Sandero was too small too - and I still have my C5 (which I'm not proud of, but hey, it's 4 years old, so I keep it for the 'amortize) ... So the C1 fit right into my strategy. It is much less heavy and less greedy than the Sandero (3 cylinders against 4, more recent technology) ...

Finally, yes, "green" bonuses, scrapping bonus, LPG conversion bonus come into account. Until then, I worked on "grandpa's occasions" (but found myself with quite large or even very large vehicles, today too big: xantia, C5 ...)

[I Citro]

Good for sinking a little deeper into the HS. Your approach is not far from mine. I just opted for a small electric 2 seater and not too expensive to replace a 850 lpg volvo for my work trips.
I have left scoot'elec a bit lately because of a very tight schedule. But the scooter is top, when you are a fan of 2 wheels.

Regarding the consumption of + 20% that you are announcing, I don't know what your LPG kit is (I have a Necam EGI, full group injection). But in my case I found that the LPG requires a lower pressure on the accelerator to drive at the same speed. This distorts the on-board computer which indicates lower consumption (while you consume a little more with LPG). If you made the same journeys with petrol, your on-board computer should display higher consumption than the ones you are announcing. So, in my opinion, your numbers are wrong.

We can continue on an LPG subject, there have been on the forum.

[Did67]

I continue on "Dacia: a Sandero GPL at ...."

[jlt22]

Did:

Being nuclear is probably an ostrich policy,
But how would one do otherwise.
Fossil energy emits GHGs and will become scarce quickly (apart from coal); cars will switch to electricity
the developing countries, China and India want to live in the west and their growth is exponential, their energy consumption too.
Electricity is not stored. Photovoltaic produces only during the day; wind turbines only 20% of the time, when the neighborhood does not ask for their shutdown at night, yes. The biomass is limited because it will be necessary to feed all the earthlings. The dam zones are all operated in France. The tidal power can only be done in limited sites.
Unfortunately, only nuclear remains, which can produce indefinitely.