How to survive from scratch?

[Former Oceano]

Already the fact of positioning an Alpha (a clan or pack leader) is in itself a problem because one recreates an imbalance with desires / resentments, maneuvers to reach the post of Alpha.

A group life can be conceived differently: A flattening of tasks and responsibilities with a distribution, as equitable as possible, of responsibility to each person according to his skills and knowledge.

And regularly, a meeting around a good meal or a fire to discuss and revise the organization to improve it.
Everyone becomes 'alpha' responsible for their part. Everyone is valued, no one will feel aggrieved.

Starting from scratch is also advising another society where having it, power, competition could give way to personal achievement where altruism, mutual aid, sharing could be the cornerstones.

[swift2540]

Already the fact of positioning an Alpha (a clan or pack leader) is in itself a problem because one recreates an imbalance with desires / resentments, maneuvers to reach the post of Alpha.

Totally agree, this is a (big) problem.

A group life can be conceived differently: A flattening of tasks and responsibilities with a distribution, as equitable as possible, of responsibility to each person according to his skills and knowledge.

I know people who are outstanding workers, very competent, but unable to take an initiative ... Therefore unable to work without a "conductor"

[Former Oceano]

We can design an organizer, a task planner for certain activities.

What must be avoided is the erection (word chosen for all the connotations) of an alpha which in addition to a power, would seize prerogatives and advantages which would cause an imbalance within the group .

The organizer, the conductor, knows how to organize but does not have the know-how, the experience or the technicality to carry out the actions, the works. Even if he can gauge the scopes and consequences, he will probably be unable to make the gestures. He therefore needs the person whose activity he has planned. The 2 are dependent on each other.

The first because he cannot project himself into the future, conceive or plan the project, needs a guide but he has the technical knowledge, the experience and the precision.

The second does not have the technicality, does not know the gestures, does not know how to do, but knows how to design.

Both should be appreciated at the same level, with the same respect and appreciation. This is no longer the case today since we have white collar / blue collar, manual / intellectual antagonisms.

Both, in this example, must lean on each other, esteem each other and have the same advantages (I do not pay because of the underlying financial aspect and which is in my opinion annoying in such a structure).

[Ptilu]

I really like your point of view, but perfect equality leads to great harm as soon as an exceptional situation looms.
The Romans, who have continued the model of democracy beyond the Greek cities, appointed a dictators (elected for 6 months) in crisis. This model allowed the republic to last 400 years and to face many dangers (second Punic war and civil war of -60 for example) before one of these dictators plunges the most durable of the republic in the empire ( Caesar and his successors)
Well it's true the Roman republic was very structured (partician, plebein, slave) but shows the limits of democracy.

No society has ever been based on total equality!
Primitive societies always have one or more decision makers (elders, warriors, priests ...) And if we go back even further, before sedentarization, we can observe our hairy cousins ​​to give an image of our oldest societies.

To believe that humans can give up their animal heritage is very commendable, but this fact has never been put into practice. I think that even a few million years of evolution will not be able to transform us into sweet lambs.
We must watch the human species as a product of Darwinian evolution and not of reason, and we understand quite easily most of the behaviors and facts, past and present.

Sorry for the blackboard, but I've been making a reason for a long time. Despite everything, there are solutions. It is up to us to remedy it before it is too late;)

[chatelot16]

this subject is really great, I have never seen a philosophy course like this!

hierarchy of command organization problems are very important

if someone knows how to grow vegetable wheat or something, how can he convince the other to sow or plant if there is not enough food for everyone?

and if we eat everything we will sow nothing and we will have nothing the following year

who will make the decision to let some starve right away so that there is more the following year: we will have to fight and the dead will eat nothing more

starting from scratch alone is useless

starting from scratch in large numbers will be a big pain

[perplex]

Hello everybody
Finally by re-reading the entire post (we could already do something with it!)

Through all your answers, I am less worried, about the future and the organization of survival,
There emerges a clearer understanding of short-term survival and of group organization to maintain it.


In our daily life we ​​often have the impression of being surrounded by c…. inexhaustible.
I am reassured it is only an impression!

A ++

[Flytox]

hierarchy of command organization problems are very important

if someone knows how to grow vegetable wheat or something, how can he convince the other to sow or plant if there is not enough food for everyone?

and if we eat everything we will sow nothing and we will have nothing the following year

who will make the decision to let some starve right away so that there is more the following year: we will have to fight and the dead will eat nothing more

starting from scratch alone is useless

starting from scratch in large numbers will be a big pain

The difficulty is to have an alpha that works for the clan and not for them. When the alpha has become the alpha because it is the most powerful, violent, unforgiving, intriguing, we quickly arrive at the warrior system, centered on the ego of a character.

We slowly arrive at the "moral" side, the culture of good for the clan, how is it born?

[Former Oceano]

It is the next step in humanity.

After Homo sapiens sapiens, whose spirit allowed him to develop technology and sciences, to transmit them to future generations.

Homo sapiens was able to take action on the environment and therefore allow it to destroy it.

The next step will be to go beyond and turn to others and to nature as a whole.

Man must learn to be reasonable and no longer greedy, to act in altruism to achieve harmony.

But it is another cultural revolution.

After the age of fire, bronze, iron, the industrial era, what are we going to have?

[FPLM]

Hello everybody
Finally by re-reading the entire post (we could already do something with it!)

Through all your answers, I am less worried, about the future and the organization of survival,
There emerges a clearer understanding of short-term survival and of group organization to maintain it.

In our daily life we ​​often have the impression of being surrounded by c…. inexhaustible.
I am reassured it is only an impression!

A ++

Thank you for your perplexed positivism, I even get to become perplexed in my turn on the merits of the negativity that sometimes drives me!
I hope we can make a survival guide to teach children.

In case...
[Edit]

Survival I'm in the middle of it, but I'm off topic!

Sorry to hear that ... But you're on the subject, I can assure you.
This subject, I open it for the same reason finally ...

[FPLM]

A) The "spatial" irradiations can explain the evolution of the genome and the "rotation" of the dominant species ... and are therefore perhaps a necessary evil for Evolution with an E ...

Paradoxically, mass extinctions (+ or -) are necessary for evolution ...

B) When we see the diversity to which life on earth has arrived, especially in the abyss, I think that even an "exterminating" meteorite would not extinguish it ....

C) To return to the original question.

Let's observe the West of France (sold in particular) during the next weeks ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/tempete-xy ... t9382.html

I know it's not funny but it will answer a little about it right? Because the question starting from 0 there is a package that will do it ... at least materially ...

A) Inshallah. Darwin spoke thus.
In any case, if we give credit to astronomy, we can believe it. Personally, yes, but we are just beginning to imagine the dangers that this represents. The most confirmed theory about the extinction of dinosaurs comes from meteorites. In this regard, do you know all the moon stones reported and studied are exactly the same age as matter on earth, 4,9 billion years. Meteorites hitting the earth 4,9 billion years ago expelled so much material from our earth that it bombarded its moon, creating the craters that we see at full moon. Overwhelming, right?
B) I don't worry about life, I worry about mine and that of my loved ones.
C) It is precisely because I want to be part of the survivors, those who will have been able to protect myself, that I work in the direction of autonomous survival. As far as I can...