Handling and interpretations of scientific studies

[dedeleco]

janic is an intellectual idealist philosopher on the life formerly:

the children knew more about life at 10 years than our urban children

he forgets that well over half were dead children all young, appalling and scandalous conditions which hardly exist any more so strong in our world, which avoided the current explosion of the world population, with many children by woman, necessary formerly to have descendants who survive !!

At that time, one in three women who were going to give birth at the hospital would die at childbirth due to lack of asepsis, discovered by Semmelweiss around 1840, and refused by the doctors of the time !!
Progress confirmed and explained by Pasteur, even if janic has a lot of reproaches against Pasteur !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignace_Philippe_Semmelweis
he was not as gifted as Pasteur to convince of the fundamental scientific reality that he had discovered and to resist the lobbies in place !!!

Communism, in spite of its faults, was a society of sharing towards the most deprived

is in reality very false, see the dead of communism, and North Korea, with another famine this year, because the ideological utopian -isms dear or hated by janic, but too contrary to real human instinctive nature, end up in horrible disasters, wars, deaths and suffering like famines.

So I invite janic to look at the scientific reality of human nature instead of philosophizing in a vacuum his a prioris !!

[Obamot]

janic is an intellectual idealist philosopher on the life formerly:

the children knew more about life at 10 years than our urban children

he forgets that well over half were dead children all young, appalling and scandalous conditions which hardly exist any more so strong in our world, which avoided the current explosion of the world population, with many children by woman, necessary formerly to have descendants who survive !!

No! It would seem that it is exactly the opposite that we observe. Reducing infant mortality is a vector of demographic stability! That's why there is a birth deficit in the more developed countries ... And why the parties that want to stop immigration put their finger in the eye to the scapula. Because our societies NEED immigration (if not, who will pay pensions when the states are already in debt to the neck?)

[Janic]

janic is an intellectual idealist philosopher on the life formerly:
Quote:
the children knew more about life at 10 years than our urban children

This formerly dates from barely half a century for France (1960) and even less in other countries.

he forgets that well over half had died young children, appalling and scandalous conditions which hardly exist any more so strong in our world, which avoided the current explosion of the world population, with many children by woman, formerly necessary to have descendants who survive !! At that time, one in three women who were going to give birth in hospital would die at birth due to lack of asepsis, discovered by Semmelweiss around 1840, and refused by the doctors of the era !!

you know very little about the history of Semmelweis and hygienism! If the mortality from puerperal fever was due to the lack of hygiene men in the towns. The much more robust country women were delivered by women who traditionally practiced better hygiene. Moreover, even in hospitals, the mortality of women delivered by midwives (and therefore more often children) was very low (which was the starting point for Semmelweis' reflection!). In addition, the population, mainly agrarian, represented the major part of the population of countries like France.
In addition compare:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur
with
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_B%C3%A9champ

Progress confirmed and explained by Pasteur, even if janic has a lot of reproaches against Pasteur !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignace_Philippe_Semmelweis
he was not as gifted as Pasteur to convince of the fundamental scientific reality that he had discovered and to resist the lobbies in place !!!

Nothing to do with being gifted. Pasteur was ambitious and knew how to make himself known to the powerful of the time, particularly Napoleon III, which was not the case with Semmelweis and he had discovered nothing in this area, at most confirmed. Moreover JE do not reproach anything to Pasteur who was a man with his strengths and weaknesses, but to pasteurism which has invaded medical thought (easily exploitable and profitable for laboratories and pharmaceutical industries).

Quote:
Communism, in spite of its faults, was a society of sharing towards the most deprived

is in reality very false, see the dead of communism, and North Korea, with another famine this year, because the utopian ideological -isms dear or hated by janic, but too contrary to the real human instinctive nature, end up horrible disasters, wars, deaths and suffering like famines.

The also you confuse is that came "communism" recovered by some ambitious policies and communism defined by Marx. You are confusing in the same way as with the "religions" which have deviated from their initial ideology.

So I invite janic to look at the scientific reality of human nature instead of philosophizing in a vacuum his a prioris !!
Scientific reality is a partial vision of human reality.

Who could have the vanity to say that he knows what this reality is? You?

[sen-no-sen]

As a harmless pastime for wealthy amateurs, science, as soon as it has become sufficiently mature, has allied itself with technology and finance.

I would rephrase it differently: (...) science, once it has become mature enough, had no choice but to be allied with technique and finance.

Science is neutral in nature, but in a market society it makes sense that it in turn becomes so.
Moreover, basic research, the economic benefits of which are not the most obvious in the short term, is now very difficult to finance.

@Janic: you shouldn't have such a bleak vision of science.
Science and technology have allowed us to free ourselves from a number of constraints.
They have certainly created others ...
Like growth it is necessary, but must be used wisely.
As usual, it is not the instrument that is really dangerous, but the user.


dedelco wrote:

is an appearance that allows us to live much better than before, an essential motivation for our progress !!!
Ahmed would he accept to live like workers and peasants, 200 years ago by candlelight, without school, without electricity, poorly heated, without TV, without computer, without information, working hard physically 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, getting punctured, at the mercy of diseases, etc.

You would think you heard C.Allègre!
Why the hell must we oppose the logic of growth and merchandise a lifestyle from survivalism!

There is no question of going back to the age of the caves, but we must note the scam that constitutes the consumer society.
Or the purpose deliberately deflected is not that of making a more secure world free from the harshness of nature, but rather the maximization of profits, the transformation of human relationships, money for money, consumption as only development credo and ultimately the alienation of our species.

[Obamot]

janic is an intellectual idealist philosopher on the life formerly:
Quote:
the children knew more about life at 10 years than our urban children

This formerly dates from barely half a century for France (1960) and even less in other countries.

he forgets that well over half had died young children, appalling and scandalous conditions which hardly exist any more so strong in our world, which avoided the current explosion of the world population, with many children by woman, formerly necessary to have descendants who survive !! At that time, one in three women who were going to give birth in hospital would die at birth due to lack of asepsis, discovered by Semmelweiss around 1840, and refused by the doctors of the era !!

you know very little about the history of Semmelweis and hygienism! If the mortality from puerperal fever was due to the lack of hygiene men in the towns. The much more robust country women were delivered by women who traditionally practiced better hygiene. Moreover, even in hospitals, the mortality of women delivered by midwives (and therefore more often children) was very low (which was the starting point for Semmelweis' reflection!). In addition, the population, mainly agrarian, represented the major part of the population of countries like France.
In addition compare:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Pasteur
with
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_B%C3%A9champ

Progress confirmed and explained by Pasteur, even if janic has a lot of reproaches against Pasteur !!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignace_Philippe_Semmelweis
he was not as gifted as Pasteur to convince of the fundamental scientific reality that he had discovered and to resist the lobbies in place !!!

Nothing to do with being gifted. Pasteur was ambitious and knew how to make himself known to the powerful of the time, particularly Napoleon III, which was not the case with Semmelweis and he had discovered nothing in this area, at most confirmed. Moreover JE do not reproach anything to Pasteur who was a man with his strengths and weaknesses, but to pasteurism which has invaded medical thought (easily exploitable and profitable for laboratories and pharmaceutical industries).

Quote:
Communism, in spite of its faults, was a society of sharing towards the most deprived

is in reality very false, see the dead of communism, and North Korea, with another famine this year, because the utopian ideological -isms dear or hated by janic, but too contrary to the real human instinctive nature, end up horrible disasters, wars, deaths and suffering like famines.

The also you confuse is that came "communism" recovered by some ambitious policies and communism defined by Marx. You are confusing in the same way as with the "religions" which have deviated from their initial ideology.

So I invite janic to look at the scientific reality of human nature instead of philosophizing in a vacuum his a prioris !!
Scientific reality is a partial vision of human reality.

Who could have the vanity to say that he knows what this reality is? You?

And yes ... Pasteur was not even a doctor (it was quite a shock when I discovered this a few decades ago) ...

Besides Montagnier is, but he is a big smart ... (discovery of AIDS ... you speak ...)

[Janic]

obamot hello

Besides Montagnier is, but he is a big smart ... (discovery of AIDS ... you speak ...)

his latest positions, such as the lack of importance of the virus with a healthy lifestyle and food and even more concerning the memory of water, are making up for his "errors". You have to say:
1) that his discovery of the "virus" could be in good faith with hindsight, it turns out that he was wrong
2) that now he has nothing more to lose and therefore can take contradictory positions like Pasteur who would have said that Béchamp / Bernard were right.

[the middle]

About DD:

janic is an intellectual idealist philosopher on the life formerly:
Quote:
the children knew more about life at 10 years than our urban children

he forgets that well over half had died young children, appalling and scandalous conditions which hardly exist any more so strong in our world, which avoided the current explosion of the world population, with many children by woman, formerly necessary to have descendants who survive !!

At that time, one in three women who were going to give birth at the hospital would die at childbirth due to lack of asepsis, discovered by Semmelweiss around 1840, and refused by the doctors of the time !!

My mother-in-law had 14 brothers and sisters, all born at home, all dead at a great age .. (but it was in Poland )
As for communism, I have known it personally, I can tell you that when I went to Poland, the spirit of mutual help was common in labas.
WAS

[dedeleco]

Hygiene and health, even in the countryside had to be low, because the world population did not explode as currently on the last 100 years of medical progress (just wash with care and antisepsis practiced since Pasteur, even by the beautiful mother of justemilieu).

Obviously, there were huge differences in mortality, but in the leading research hospitals of the time, we went from the autopsy room of the dead directly to that of childbirth, without distrust at all, without washing our hands, thanks to the criminal theory of generation, spontaneous creation, dear to janic, in another form.

And yes ... Pasteur was not even a doctor (it was quite a shock when I discovered this a few decades ago) ...

There is no need to be a pseudo specialist to discover big scientific errors !!
On the contrary, to see the absurdities, one must not be conditioned to it, to false dogma !!
Even now, there are huge errors in medicine that we do not see !!!

Pasteur was, at the start, a real physicist, long before having ambition, famous for its crystals of right and left tartrates, which led him to study life, observing reality, scientifically, and if he had been trained in medicine at the time, false, unscientific, he would have discovered absolutely nothing !!
You blame him for the efficiency of his hard work, for having succeeded in proving with the power that exact science gives, for having a very solid mental resistance, despite a heart attack, unlike Semmelweiss, much weaker .

Read his detailed life.
He discovered the explanation for the discovery of Semmelweiss, not yet admitted around 1860, no spontaneous generation or creation, which remains dear to janic 150 years later !!
He has proven it relentlessly and repeatedly for 20 years at the academy of medicine, for a generation, demonstrating lots of errors of contrary experiences !!
He has scientifically proven it and say:

he had discovered nothing in this area, at most confirmed.

is archival, because to discover is to prove reality scientifically.
And you have only a priori false ideas about Pasteur, out of ideological hatred of the technological power associated with the power of scientific reality.

[Janic]

spontaneous creation, dear to janic again, in another form.

Ah, well, I didn't realize it! like what!
Nobody denied any part of Pasteur's work, or his hard work, just that he recovered a little too easily the work of others (especially his close collaborators ... or not) and his ambition did not temper these trends.

He discovered the explanation for the discovery of Semmelweiss, not yet admitted around 1860,

when she had traveled through Europe and even America. Wikipedia is not the only source of information! Currently homeopathy is also not recognized by the proponents of allopathy, despite its 200 years of age and the literature of the time shows that there was little doctor ignoring its existence (despite that there was no internet), the same for Semmelweis.

is archival, because to discover is to prove reality scientifically.

well it was not the case for his vaccines anyway. Let us credit him that he did not have 200 years of hindsight to see his error, which is no longer forgivable today. This does not take anything away from what he discovered elsewhere!

[Christophe]

It is not a scientific study but it is also, I think, manipulation of figures: https://www.econologie.com/forums/post217951.html#217951