waste is not at all the same
when we want 0,5l hot water, we run exactly 0,5l hot water
of course, it takes out 0,5l hot water from the boiler that will heat up a certain length of pipes without reaching the tap, but it is less serious than to run 10litre before seeing the hot water
so a little balloon has electric heating produces a saving of energy ... energy saving, but not necessarily money the main thermal energy is much cheaper than the electricity
if the main energy is not expensive it is better a circulation pump
it could be even better: a circulation pump that turns only when you press a button! Normally stop to let the pipes cool: when you want hot water you press a button, and hot water circulates for a few minutes: simple timer, and we have hot water without wasting volume of water ... and there is less heat loss than running the traffic constantly
of course with good pipe insulation this kind of question does not matter much anymore
actual price of a bath or shower for water and heating
- chatelot16
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6960
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- Location: Angouleme
- x 264
- elephant
- Econologue expert
- posts: 6646
- Registration: 28/07/06, 21:25
- Location: Charleroi, center of the world ....
- x 7
I came to the conclusion that for 2 or 3 dl hot water, it was more cost effective to use the electric kettle so as not to waste 2 or 3 liters of water. I'll have to make a graph.
0 x
elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
- christina86
- I learn econologic
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- Location: limit poitou / center / limousin
- x 1
Did67 wrote:... the "dirty kids" who prefer to mix tap water to brush their teeth! ...
Did, when we have sensitive teeth we can not wash them in cold water ...
so it's just a matter of organization:
I have a little less than a liter before the arrival of hot water - I take the opportunity to spend the sponge, rinse the face, or recovers to water, etc. - Then wash your teeth with warm water and finish with the dishes in hot water.
Fastoche, not binding (oh yes, my toothbrush is in the kitchen, not in the bathroom)
0 x
Go ask "dirty kids" to group activities !!!
NB: your quantity of hot water "lost" is what will remain in the pipe "for nothing". So it depends on the distance and the diameter of the pipe.
Using cold running water before hot water saves water. No energy! The economy is little compared to the energy contained in this water (very exactly, "physically", the hot water which will remain in the pipe and cool there in vain; therefore the same volume as cold water elapsed before hot water arrives).
Okay, "darn kids", I'm exaggerating a bit. But I struggle !!!
NB: your quantity of hot water "lost" is what will remain in the pipe "for nothing". So it depends on the distance and the diameter of the pipe.
Using cold running water before hot water saves water. No energy! The economy is little compared to the energy contained in this water (very exactly, "physically", the hot water which will remain in the pipe and cool there in vain; therefore the same volume as cold water elapsed before hot water arrives).
Okay, "darn kids", I'm exaggerating a bit. But I struggle !!!
0 x
1l hot water at 60 ° C is about 60 Wh ... which at the price of kWh in France represents 0.007 € ...
It's not masses, but it still represents 4h running on a modern laptop, or 1 2 months charging a smartphone, or 10 terminals electric bike without pedaling, or 150 300m vertical drop (according to the weight)...
... or the gray energy of a half plastic bag
The energy is still not expensive ...
It's not masses, but it still represents 4h running on a modern laptop, or 1 2 months charging a smartphone, or 10 terminals electric bike without pedaling, or 150 300m vertical drop (according to the weight)...
... or the gray energy of a half plastic bag
The energy is still not expensive ...
0 x
-
- I learn econologic
- posts: 10
- Registration: 23/06/10, 16:04
- Location: Nantes
Hello,
Too bad they do not make thermostatic mixing valves for sinks, of course that does not definitively solve the problem of wasting "not yet hot" water and the energy for heating this water ...
... But that would limit the phenomenon "mixer left in the middle position", bringing hot and cold water at 50% / 50% flow => We let run for hours so that the 50% flow of hot water (lukewarm in fact) finally manage to flow from the said mixer ...
And in addition, the flow rate is "softer" than with mixers where you often spray yourself if you lift the lever a little too suddenly. ! (Despite a pressure reducer tarnished at 4 bars !!) .
It also avoids burns at the kids rooms!
Personalized with 10,5 m² of homemade thermal panels (p max measured thermal 5600 W), I appreciate the economy (financial and energy) compared to an electric cumulus!
I preheat my pasta bowls with solar hot water (doing a sprig of dishes with cold water coming in.
I limited the diameter of my pipes PER to 10 and not 12, and I isolated them) ... Of course it helps when building new!
See you soon
Matthew
Too bad they do not make thermostatic mixing valves for sinks, of course that does not definitively solve the problem of wasting "not yet hot" water and the energy for heating this water ...
... But that would limit the phenomenon "mixer left in the middle position", bringing hot and cold water at 50% / 50% flow => We let run for hours so that the 50% flow of hot water (lukewarm in fact) finally manage to flow from the said mixer ...
And in addition, the flow rate is "softer" than with mixers where you often spray yourself if you lift the lever a little too suddenly. ! (Despite a pressure reducer tarnished at 4 bars !!) .
It also avoids burns at the kids rooms!
Personalized with 10,5 m² of homemade thermal panels (p max measured thermal 5600 W), I appreciate the economy (financial and energy) compared to an electric cumulus!
I preheat my pasta bowls with solar hot water (doing a sprig of dishes with cold water coming in.
I limited the diameter of my pipes PER to 10 and not 12, and I isolated them) ... Of course it helps when building new!
See you soon
Matthew
0 x
1) The mixer, if it remains on 38 ° for example, it will change "almost" nothing compared to the debate here! To have only cold water, he puts the mixer on "cold" or the lever on the right ...
In the "dirty kids" hypothesis, they won't!
2) Do not burn yourself: if you have not done so, I strongly recommend that you put a 3 channel valve calibrated at 60 ° at the outlet of the balloon. This is normally mandatory on a CESI. And prevent people (children, elderly) from getting burned with the almost boiling water that can contain a soliare preparator by low racking and super-good weather (especially a cavalry like yours!).
If the water is hotter, it just adds enough cold water so that your DHW does not exceed 60 ° at the start in the circuits. This also reduces the losses, diluting from the start.
In the "dirty kids" hypothesis, they won't!
2) Do not burn yourself: if you have not done so, I strongly recommend that you put a 3 channel valve calibrated at 60 ° at the outlet of the balloon. This is normally mandatory on a CESI. And prevent people (children, elderly) from getting burned with the almost boiling water that can contain a soliare preparator by low racking and super-good weather (especially a cavalry like yours!).
If the water is hotter, it just adds enough cold water so that your DHW does not exceed 60 ° at the start in the circuits. This also reduces the losses, diluting from the start.
0 x
-
- I learn econologic
- posts: 10
- Registration: 23/06/10, 16:04
- Location: Nantes
Hi Did67,
Yes I mounted a thermostatic mixer on the ball, calibrated at 55 ° C ...
Regarding the installation of a thermostatic mixer (shower) instead of the classic basin mixer:
The goal is that initially, even set on 38 ° C, it will shoot (practically) only hot water (trying to reach its 38 ° C), while if you leave the mixer of a sink classic in the middle position (by aesthetics etc.), it will draw cold water and hot water to 50% each: You will 2x more time to get temperate water.
I can not really do the test at home ... although, by measuring the volume of water flowing with the shower (thermostatic mixer) or the mixer (conventional) of the sink (same circuit), it should give ca.
A ++
Yes I mounted a thermostatic mixer on the ball, calibrated at 55 ° C ...
Regarding the installation of a thermostatic mixer (shower) instead of the classic basin mixer:
The goal is that initially, even set on 38 ° C, it will shoot (practically) only hot water (trying to reach its 38 ° C), while if you leave the mixer of a sink classic in the middle position (by aesthetics etc.), it will draw cold water and hot water to 50% each: You will 2x more time to get temperate water.
I can not really do the test at home ... although, by measuring the volume of water flowing with the shower (thermostatic mixer) or the mixer (conventional) of the sink (same circuit), it should give ca.
A ++
0 x
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