External insulation with polystyrene

[sherkanner]

Hello people, and yes, a super original subject ^^

well, I went back through the section, and I'm still a bit lost ^^

My father plans to insulate his house, and I would need some more advice.

We offer expanded polystyrene at € 100 / m² for finished installation (with plaster)
Personally, I find it a bit expensive, especially for fuel oil bubbles ...

There's still 350m² of surface to cover, with 17 openings, so it amounts to € 35k minimum ...

issue:
1) do you find it expensive? (me yes, I'll have to find the course of the kidneys on the black market) ....
2) What can be a little less oiled solution in this price range?
3) Would the prices in Germany or Belgium be more attractive? (we are 40km from the 3 borders)
4) Roller shutters have the box inside, so air leakage inside: solutions?
5) The walls are red brick, you think there will be a problem with the weight of the insulation, does that limit the choices?

The information found in the wires seems a bit old, especially when I see the price of expanded polystyrene, and what we offer my father, there would be roughly 85 € for the installation and the finishes. ...
https://www.econologie.com/forums/tableau-co ... t2977.html

[the middle]

Hello, I launched a post a year ago on this subject (personal experience)
In summary:
Polystyrene is 10 times less cher in Poland
Then, this kind of insulation is great, comfort (more cold walls), less heating consumption (30% with a ladle) 10cm thick.
Fault! if old house, the outside wall does not breathe, and rising humidity ... not good
I will edit to find this post
Here, I found:
https://www.econologie.com/forums/photo-repo ... 10971.html

[sherkanner]

Yes, but a priori, the price of polystyrene does not count for much in the final cost of the product installed.

And the polystyrene, it doesn't breathe, and I don't like it.

[Obamot]

Well expanded polystyrene (but prefer extruded) you do not give the price in your corner ... So how to answer (make a measurement and go to the bricos where better: at a supplier of insulating materials for companies construction, and you will have the real "economic price" depending on the quantity! Don't forget the roof)

The ideal solution, given what you say (but which does not apply to everything, should see photos of the house and then know a little more about its construction, and here I suggest you open another thread ...).

Probably 8cm of wood wool over cellulose wadding 20 to 30cm outdoors with plaster finish on nylon mesh anchored in the facade with PVC type pegs or something. (with rain shield + steam brake according to the calculated dew point coef!)

Take advantage of the change of windows in double glazing and argon gas, to put them on wooden frames on the outside => in front of the facade insulation (so we keep the old interior windows and the insulation becomes perfect, no more cold!). But it is better to start by diagnosing the roof first and start to insulate there!

Bein question cost it may explode the budget, but at least it will work ... And each year we save several thousand liters of fuel oil (or kWh if we heat with nuclear ...). So it is de facto amortized => there is therefore no hesitation! The only way to save money - is to ask it yourself - if you have the capacity. Go take a look at construction sites on Sunday then ask questions to workers during the week, if you are not sure ...

For the implementation it is better to ask Le_Juste_Milieu or Bidouille when he passes by, him Bidouille is his job (or then does a search under his name with "dew point" it gives lots of useful links. ..).

But the solution of Le_Juste_Milieu remains applicable when posed as it should be, with its advantages and disadvantages of course ...

[sherkanner]

Here is a photo of the house during the insulation of the roof (thin layer insulation because lost roof space, and slab already insulated with polystyrene and recovery boards).



The garage (on the left) will not be isolated
What about balconies?

For the price in polystyrene in the corner, no idea, I don't live in the same corner as my parents ^^

The windows are already double glazed with wooden frames since they were installed (I give them a lick of paint every 3-4 years)

For fuel oil consumption, yes, the goal is to reduce it, especially considering the consumption of last year, more than 4k liters ...

[dedeleco]

The price is the labor of installation, fixing, final plaster, etc. so use Chinese, Indians or other Asians instead of more expensive Polish !!

We do that by importing all our clothes and many other objects, in full legality !!

Just import the workers into France and the price will be divided by 10 !!

It is also necessary to change at the same time the windows, offset to the outside, to avoid thermal bridges, on the periphery of these windows; which, if not appear, as Obamot recalls.
On the photo I am afraid that it has not been done, so thermal gains significantly reduced? !!

The more you want to insulate well, the more you risk errors that reduce the quality of the insulation; without realising it !!

The humidity depends on the walls of the house, but is very likely on an old stone house with direct foundations on the ground. This humidity rises stuck behind the exterior or even interior insulation, and can be horrible, if poorly thought out, demolishing the entire old wall, as indicated elsewhere on econology, Scribble from memory !!

[sherkanner]

On the photo I am afraid that it has not been done, so thermal gains significantly reduced? !!

Nothing has been done on the walls yet ...

The humidity depends on the walls of the house, but is very likely on an old stone house with direct foundations on the ground. This humidity rises stuck behind the exterior or even interior insulation, and can be horrible, if poorly thought out, demolishing the entire old wall, as indicated elsewhere on econology, Scribble from memory !!

Mid-80s red brick house.
For foundations, I have to ask again.

Ah, and if we put windows how do we do with the shutters?
My mother can't stand dirty tiles, so shutters are needed ^^

And it has to be beautiful too ...

[Obamot]

Here is a photo of the house during the insulation of the roof (thin layer insulation because lost roof space, and slab already insulated with polystyrene and recovery boards).

Pretty little house, looks like a rental?

The windows are already double glazed with wooden frames since they were installed (I give them a lick of paint every 3-4 years)

So simple window on wooden frame on the front? It would be even better than triple glazing and goodbye cold bridges ... (Except for the balconies floor in extension of the floor slab ... There, big problem ...)

For fuel oil consumption, yes, the goal is to reduce it, especially considering the consumption of last year, more than 4k liters ...

At the price of fuel oil, take care of the insulation, calculate the dew point etc., it will quickly pay off! Take economical quantities and assemble it yourself! And the gain in comfort ... We don't even talk about it! Health is priceless.

Do not forget the interior insulation, yes, if ... because of the balcony cold bridge: essential in all rooms "balcony side" (cost to be expected, for: plastic flooring on wood parquet or even wool carpet + extruded polystyrene over the entire ceiling, directly on the concrete> 3cm as well as on the interior gable wall) because the junction point with the slab which extends to the balcony, and which will act as a "pile" (difficult to resolve completely, except...).

Even better, insulate the balcony by making a mezzanine! It will increase the "living space" available all year round! (Since it seems that you are running out of space, which I can see by the construction of a garage ...) Result: perfect insulation on this facade and "heat trap" during the day by the sunshine (see l orientation of this gable facade). Of course it is more expensive ... But there is difficult to find an efficient solution otherwise with these penetrating balconies ...

[sherkanner]

No rental, just a large house in the middle of the countryside, with garden and 2-3 trees ^^

The gable is southwest (a few degrees ready)

You talk about mezzanine, what do you mean by that?
Isolation all around?

For interior insulation, this is not provided.
Tiles with underfloor heating except in the bedrooms where there is parquet (to avoid overheating under the beds).

It seems to me that the tiles are already insulated (but I don't have the details)

I'm going home to my parents this week, I will have more details at this time

[dedeleco]

The very long balcony, noticed by obamot, is a big problem of thermal bridge very difficult to remove !!!

Think about it carefully with serious DPE of the different possible options !!


To fix ideas To the ladle with:

Mid-80s red brick house

suggests that there is an interior insulation of a few cm and is an effective thickness of approximately 3 to 5 cm of insulation (more insulating brick walls ??)?
With 4000 liters of fuel oil per year and 200m2 of floor? (to see the photo 17 openings) that gives 200KWh / m2 typical of this time, years 70 to 80, better than older houses !!

The foundations must be satisfactory enough, without too many wet lifts (to be checked) and if there were no cracks during the heat wave of 2003 !!!

So a thorough study must be made, I will look for thicker than 100mm, at 20cm, because 10cm instead of about 5cm equivalent, divide by 3 the heat losses (10 + 5) / 5, which with the remaining thermal bridges, long balconies, around the 17 openings, will only be reduced by less than 2, or even by 1,5, that is 50% less, if not lucky, and that already the losses are due to the current thermal bridges !!!
So the gain is very expensive in investment, except the sensations in the house.

To be quantified with great care by being very critical on the models, and taking the exact dimensions of the openings, walls and slabs !! !!!

The pros pose and don't worry about possible nonsense !!

Some will recommend straw bales 40cm thick !!!

Personnellement, after accurately evaluating the remaining thermal bridges, I would put at least 20cm of insulation, 10cm a priori is too low, since the installation price does not change dramatically with the thickness.
We have always, in the past undersized the insulation, a few cm in the 70s to 80s, and we still continue with 10cm instead of 20 to 40cm !!
Ideal to redo lots of work 10 or 20 years later !!

Nothing has been done on the walls yet ...

but we see scaffolding as if to make this exterior insulation ??