A new type of heating! (the oldest in the world)

[chatelot16]

the temperature measurement is significant if there is no water circuit to use the heat ... but you want to use the heat you need water in good thermal contact so the temperature becomes the temperature of l there is not much left to measure

the solution seems to me a flexible hose that goes loose in the compost pile: garden hoses

advantage the plastic will not rust and will withstand corrosion of the compost or manure for a long time

50m of garden hose makes a larger contact surface than a 200l tank

the volume of a 200l tank is useless: if it heats up you do not see the temperature rise before heating the volume: with a pipe, if it heats up you can see it faster, and you can make a regulation that circulates water only when there is enough heat to take, and which avoids pumping when there is nothing to gain

[Grelinette]

the temperature measurement is significant if there is no water circuit to use the heat ...

The idea is to locate the place in the pile where the heat is greatest (in the middle, on the edges, above, below? ...) so as to best position the pipe, the tank or tanks.

the solution seems to me a flexible hose that goes loose in the compost pile: garden hoses.
the plastic does not rust and will withstand corrosion of the compost or manure for a long time.

With the risk that a PE garden hose will melt if there is a very strong exothermic reaction. It is common for heaps of manure to smoke with the high temperature inside.

50m of garden hose makes a larger contact surface than a 200l tank

50 m of PE pipe 32 mm in diameter (2 mm wall thickness) only makes a volume of 14 liters of water. It doesn't seem like much to me. Without a reserve, the water passing through the pipe would have to heat up very quickly => high temperature => melting of the pipe.
To start, I will only recover a cumulus of 50 to 100 liters. It will allow me to do tests.

the volume of a 200l tank is useless: if it heats up you do not see the temperature rise before heating the volume: with a pipe, if it heats up you can see it faster, and you can make a regulation that circulates water only when there is enough heat to take, and which avoids pumping when there is nothing to gain

It is quite simple to put the probe in the tank to know the temperature of the water.

[chatelot16]

there is no risk of the pipes melting: the heat is produced by bacteria ... above a certain temperature the bacteria would be dead

it's not the volume that counts! water must be circulated to capture heat, limit temperature without waiting for overheating to slow fermentation

when we see heaps of hay catching fire during fermentation it does not mean that the fermentation raises the temperature high enough to ignite: it means above all that the fermentation of certain matter produces spontaneously flammable gases like fire mad

practically the polyethylene of 32 is too stiff, good for a fixed installation: to mix with the pile it is better a more flexible hoses like hoses

to stir the pile with a fork, first pull the pipe out of the pile, move the pile by rebuilding it by alternating turns of pipe and layer of manure

so despite the low thermal conductivity the heat will be captured without leaving it the possibility of getting lost

[Ahmed]

No, no risk of melting the pipe, the temperature will rise, at a peak, to 65/70 ° (if my memory serves me); then it will descend very gradually until you move your pile, which will cause it to rise again.

These bacteria are very friendly (this is an opinion which is only my opinion!) And their behavior is fairly predictable, however this does not guarantee that your supply of hot water will be sustainable.

I explain: at the level of the caloric intake, there will be a cooling which will discourage bacteria; a dry and insulating zone will form on the periphery of the exchange zone and will block the process (they are chilly, these rascals!).

One should not make the mistake of confusing the quantity of heat contained in the heap and the flow likely to be generated; this is why the demonstrations are conclusive and the regular uses disappointing ...

In my opinion, the socarex pipe is to be avoided, it is better to stick to your initial idea: the balloon will remain hot when you take water samples and it may work better as well.
This is seen from a biological point of view, Chatelot is certainly right from a physical point of view, but here biological prevails ...

[PITMIX]

Hello and happy new year everyone
Very nice the idea of ​​manure to heat the water of a balloon.
My 200Litre tank with a resistance of 2000w and I programmed the heating time to 4h which is 8kwh to maintain the water at 60 ° C every day for 4 people.
Question: If we reverse the calculation can have consider that in 24h (the manure heats 24 / 24h) to produce 8kwh, it would be enough that your pile of manure produces the equivalent of 334 w which heats without stop?

Finally if it is right the power seems quite reasonable.

[I Citro]

Hello Pitmix and happy New Year.
It's not as simple as you say.
In fact to raise the water to 60 ° C, you need a certain Delta T ° ...
I'm not sure that 338W of maximum instantaneous power is enough to raise the volume of water in the tank to 60 ° C ...
This will of course depend on the initial temperature of the tank before heating and the losses that will have to be compensated for (the quality of insulation of the tank and the phase difference of the insulation) but also the inertia represented by the volume of water to be heated. .

Others than me, more experts in the field will perhaps present this problem to you in the form of an equation.

[PITMIX]

Well from what I know it takes 4,18 kj / kg to heat the water by 1 ° c. To pass the water from 10 ° c to 65 ° c it is necessary in the case of a balloon of 200litres
200x4,18x55 = 45980kj or about 12kwh or the equivalent of a resistance of 500w heating for 24 hours. I think this will be valid for the first heating but then in stabilized regime it will take less power because the delta T ° will be less important.
The problem is that there will be draws throughout the day which may cause problems the water will be lukewarm. With a 50-liter tank, the water will be heated faster but also more quickly renewed in fresh water.

[Ahmed]

A small formal question: why have you added to the title the mention "the oldest in the world", if not by antithesis?

[chatelot16]

the oldest in the world it's weird

At the time when we put the stables in the same building as the house, we dumped the manure correctly! much better than in current livestock buildings

the oldest heating is the combustion of wood! the first solar heating since the energy of wood comes 100% from the sun

[Ahmed]

I think that before the invention of fire which is relatively recent compared to the age of humanity (it obviously depends where we start ... but it dates anyway) the oldest heating system was to to hug against each other (which sometimes had probably good, like bad! ).

The one you quote, Chatelot, (big) animals living near humans is a much more recent version: we kept the cattle for heating and we evacuated the manure for the smell!