A new type of heating! (the oldest in the world)

[bernardd]

Further, you say:

the rest of the practices can stop immediately

The bulk of the effort is on chemical agriculture: it is not easy to change the model massively and quickly while alternative techniques exist, certainly, but still require many adjustments and developments.

What I wanted to say is that if we stop passing the plow, it's over.

If we stop putting chemicals, when will their lethal effect stop in the ground?

[Ahmed]

I understood well. The unfortunate paradox with chemicals is that in a world that produces almost only goods with a (very) limited lifespan, substances that have been banned for a long time are found in soils and waters!

[oli 80]

Good evening, here is a video of this famous compost water heater project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSIMqWCTS1Q

[Grelinette]

Good evening, here is a video of this famous compost water heater project https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSIMqWCTS1Q

So say oli 80, you read thoughts at a distance !!! ...
This weekend I was just seeing that the pile of dung from my horses had grown in size, weight and beauty, and I remembered that I had launched the idea long ago to try to heat up.

Thank you for this very instructive video which will relaunch my dung heating experiences.

[oli 80]

Hello, in fact I found that by chance on youtube and it is Canadian by the way, here is the second video by the same author
and his youtube channel where you will find the address of his blog
https://www.youtube.com/user/wenrolland/featured
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmisa3OiNHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9rA10iv1Rc

[Ahmed]

A Canadian essay on the French system Jean Pain; the ball installed in the middle of the heap is less restrictive than the Socarex coils wound as the heap is built, as in the initial model.
There remain the inherent limitations in the functioning of these fermentations: I have frequented anaerobic thermophilic bacteria in another life ...

[Grelinette]

... the ball installed in the middle of the heap is less restrictive than the Socarex coils wound as the heap is built, as in the initial model.
There remain the inherent limitations in the functioning of these fermentations: I have frequented anaerobic thermophilic bacteria in another life ...

Indeed, the installation of a balloon is much simpler and economical, especially since in the recycling centers there are dozens of cumulus emptied each week: not long ago I recovered one of 300 liters to make myself a manure scraper ... like what, chance makes certain projects come together!

2 questions before embarking on this new project which seems quite simple to carry out:

1 °) it is explained in the video that the pile must be in a pyramid for better holding. By using a container like a corrugated iron from a small above ground pool, the pile would be better held and higher.
Is this beneficial to the exothermic reactions of bacteria?


(Regularly when I go to the recycling center, I see that there are sheets of swimming pools thrown in the bucket, I can easily recover one).

2) it is also explained that the heap must be regularly sprinkled with water to promote exothermic reactions.
By laying the heap on pallets covered with a geotextile film, all placed on a recovery tarpaulin on the ground, the excess water would pass through the heap and would be recovered by the tarpaulin. A pumping system, by a small wind turbine for example, could raise this water and pour it back at the top of the pile.
Do you think this system, which is fairly easy to implement, is useful?

[chatelot16]

to heat it you need air: composting

if you lock in a sheet there will be no more air: it will no longer be composting but anaerobic digestion and it will no longer heat

worse if it methanizes and there is nothing to capture the methane it will be a stupid source of greenhouse gases

Fortunately, when there is a lack of air to heat like compost there is still too much air for a good methanization: it makes a failed methanization which only makes CO2

the need to ventilate is a big problem: if you ventilate too much you disperse the heat ... if you do not ventilate enough it no longer produces heat: which does not mean that it is cold, but something hot only if you don't take the heat is useless

that the core of a manure pile is always warm does not prove that it is a good source of heat: the power of a heat source depends on the amount of heat that can be taken

I prefer real methanization: it makes gas that we can store and transport without loss to burn it by making a high temperature exactly where we want ... or even do better than heat

a pool sheet directly in contact with the compost will be destroyed by rust in a few years

the same sheet can be used as a methanisation tank provided that the interior is sealed with a plastic film

we now find 0,4mm thick black polyethylene film intended for sanitation sand filters, which is better than the 0,2mm film that I used before
http://www.bricodepot.fr/angouleme-cham ... prod13629/

[Ahmed]

There is, in my opinion, no inconvenience in using your pool sheet, as long as the ratio between the diameter of the pile and the surface in contact with the sheet remains favorable to gas exchange.

Regarding whether or not to promote the exothermic reactions of bacteria, it is completely indifferent to them, what they need is a sufficiently large and massive heap for the ratio between the heat exchange surface with the exterior remains weak compared to the volume * (as the heap surfaces grow roughly squared dimensions while volumes are cube, do not hesitate to shovel!).

Anyway, even with a conical or other heap (without sheet metal) the bacteria will lack oxygen before having digested the entire substrate (the heap "lives" mostly on its initial gas stock) and the production of heat. will cease; it will then be necessary to stir the pile again in order to renew this supply of oxygen (and incorporate the "mantle" (Cf. infra *).

Regarding the humidification of the pile, as you start from a damp material, this should not be too much of a problem.
When it comes to shredded wood, it is otherwise difficult to impregnate it with water correctly: in addition to the fact that the quantities to be spread are large **, the particles of wood tend to make tiles and the water to run through, hence the advantage in this precis case of proceeding with a fine and very divided jet, alternating between watering and resting phases.

To answer your last question, the pile you are considering does not need any other watering than the sprinkling at the start and therefore this system is superfluous.

* It was said above that these heaps in fermentation could not release much heat since it is not uncommon to observe snow on them: this deduction is inaccurate since the outside of the heap serves as insulation and does not participate in fermentation.
** Chipped wood has a much higher water retention capacity than straw and is much better litter!

[Grelinette]

Hello everyone and happy new year.

Ok for all these details.

The purpose of placing a sheet around the pile is to make it hold high and therefore allow a little more to be put. Ultimately the pile will be narrower but higher for the same volume.
Incidentally, it will also make it possible to clearly delimit and retain the pile so that it does not overflow in the event of heavy rain.

On the other hand, if the sheet metal can slow down the reaction, a simple roasting can do the trick. It may also be easier to install with simple stakes.

For additional watering by water recovery, I still think it can be very useful because I noticed that after several days of good dry weather, even in winter, the compost in the box in my garden quickly became very dry and difficult to move, and the horse droppings in the park turned into very dry powder.

Anyway, putting a waterproof tarp on the ground, then pallets and a geotextile is very simple to do.
Eventually, I will install a recovery water circulation system to see if there is a temperature change.

Given the price of small probe thermometers (less than 5 €), it will be very interesting to measure the temperature at different places in the pile, before and after watering.

Moreover, depending on the temperature readings, the installation can surely be optimized by placing several small tanks in a circle and connected together instead of a single large central.