Solutions for econological transition and anti-crisis?

[Ahmed]

after:
At the end of one of his recent conference, Bertrand Méheust wondered about the inability to change within our society.

Why, in fact, is the nostalgia for the mythical "30 glorious" today the unsurpassable horizon of a large part of the left?
Why only a defensive attitude vis-a-vis the right which wants to suppress "the acquired advantages"?

Probably because of the inability to dare to think of a new utopia that would oppose the current utopia; have sufficient lucidity to stop believing that the present utopia which presents itself in the guise of "pragmatism" is likely to develop and that, consequently, the most urgent thing is to prolong it.
Capitalism is a human creation and as such doomed to disappear, but, unlike those who wait for it with hope, the form of domination it contains is ready to reincarnate in another type of society perhaps even more monstrous. ..except if other visions are urgently constructed.

Here is an example of a lack of lucidity on the part of a sympathetic Greek: http://www.acrimed.org/article3829.html who is astonished at the partiality of a media, not knowing, or having forgotten that a media is a simple commodity and that it cannot derogate from the rule which apply to the goods: to make the market more fluid.

For good measure here is a link on a corporation which works on the means of massive annihilation of humanity, but who nevertheless feel concerned by global warming, amazing, no?, as would have said Desproges: http://www.novethic.fr/novethic/ecologie,environnement,rechauffement_climatique,le_developpement_durable_enjeu_strategique_pour_defense,137530.jsp?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=Email&utm_content=novethicInfo&newsletter=ok

[Obamot]

The leader of the radical Greek left who became harakiri, replied in your sense, since he just said during his visit to France, that at the end of the legislative elections, they would apply the European plan to respond to their obligations ..."Go ahead ... no I would do nothing .... after you"...

Is that the radical left? You speak of a damn betrayal for those who believe in it ...!

I maintain that it is propaganda to claim that the forest needs humans to thrive and to make, I quote, "beautiful trees"!

You write:

No growth is not necessarily consumption, but for this to be possible, it will take imagination.

As I do not suspect you of wanting to maintain the confusion, but rather of being (slightly) victim of it by the use of an inappropriate term, I think that you mean that one must invent a new way of "development" human who would be in total opposition to the current model ...
The expectation of stamped "creatives" or of the state, even in the very restrictive and preliminary form of a "biosphere" could only lead, at best, to a lunapark serving as a pretext to continue the "business as usual ": every time, it's the syndrome of the" natural park "guaranteed!

And even:

Because we do not have much time left before the clash ... And we are very far from being ready!

This is, alas, very true, and the problem is not a lack of imagination or means, because other modes of operation are still possible.
No, the big obstacle is the inability of the various forces of change to function, intellectually speaking, outside the current schema, to persist in not understanding that alienation extends to analysis critical.
The most modest of them think that it is enough to change puppets for everything to improve, more radicals believe that it would be enough for the means of production to change hands so that immediately, by a strange transmutation, the destruction of man and nature is reversed and the tomorrows are singing ...

to be continued

Well yes, wood just like the rest!

So for wood it's simple: we would have to massively reforest and admit that fires can spread like in Celtic times and before, grilling surfaces like half of France ...! This would bring about a healthy and natural renewal of the biotop whereas in the current state we immediately call on the canadairs ....

In finance it's worse: no seaplane to put out fires!

Note that for the forest we could then reason by the absurd - just like with speculative finance, if you see the metaphor - and admit that the cycle of forests continues as at the dawn of humanity, that hydrocarbons continue their infernal cycle of "natural" production. And that the day when volcanoes wake up in droves again: that the whole planet will be set ablaze by this flaming oil, will arise from the depths in astronomical quantities ... And will strip all life on earth by a phenomenal increase in Co2, eating the oxygen up to exceeding the critical threshold necessary for the survival of species ...!

Nothing to stop the Brownian movement there we will talk about it again ...

For the rest you are entirely right: I already answered in the last sentence of this post (when it comes to finding solutions):
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post233450.html#233450

I allowed myself elsewhere to say how far the mechanism entered our reptilian brain.

Our species is therefore in great danger. It seems that we were made to believe a little too early that the brain of the "wise man" prevailed over our reptilian brain

[sen-no-sen]

Our species is therefore in great danger. It seems that we were made to believe a little too early that the brain of the "wise man" prevailed over our reptilian brain

The reptilian or paleocortex brain is the master on board, if we had to rely on our neo-cortex we would have died a long time ago!

Quote:
No growth is not necessarily consumption, but for this to be possible, it will take imagination.

Growth equals more energy, more raw material ... growth and consumption are intimately linked, however technical progress - which is often associated with it - is not.
And actually as you say, it will take imagination to do better with less.

[Ahmed]

And actually as you say, it will take imagination to do better with less.

Well, no, it is not so much a question of imagination, but rather of fighting against the imagination (modest!) Of those who find it simpler, when the cake is reduced, to decrease the share of the greatest number to their profit, not being convinced of the merits of degrowth !.

[sen-no-sen]

And actually as you say, it will take imagination to do better with less.

Well, no, it is not so much a question of imagination, but rather of fighting against the imagination (modest!) Of those who find it simpler, when the cake is reduced, to decrease the share of the greatest number to their profit, not being convinced of the merits of degrowth !.

I have a hard time imagining homo industrialis do without technological comfort!
Already some "fart a cable" if they do not have their I-fauna, there will be waves of collective suicide ... that's also the decrease!

More seriously, it is difficult - especially for the people at the top of the pyramid - to make it understood that growth is on the one hand finite, on the other hand is not the purpose of a society.

In this regard a ticket from Jean Marc Jancovici on the "forecasts" of (de) growth to come:

http://www.manicore.com/documentation/transition_energie.html

I quote:

failing to finance the "good" transition, we will have the economic collapse, and absolutely not the materialization of the campaign promises (the physics remains stronger than the speeches of the candidates). The promise of a return to "normal" growth, currently put forward by François Hollande, is irresponsible, (...)

[dedeleco]

With Jancovici, decreasing of everything except nuclear, we will especially, all of us, alive in 200mSieverts / year, "undocumented" dose regardless of the number of deaths,, declared dead for fear of radioactivity, in a meteoric growth of nuclear power, and its inevitable catastrophes, since men are not infallible in perpetuity !!!

Yet an energy transition to renewable is possible without decreasing our life.

[Janic]

Yet an energy transition to renewable is possible without decreasing our life.

what do you mean by decreasing our life?

[dedeleco]

without decay of our life

.

Our comfort, 20 ° C warm in winter, decent food, travel, simple holidays, less than 8 hours of work 5 days a week (dream for some of the developing countries), etc ...

Our unused technological and scientific possibilities have never been greater !! to change energy.

At all times, there have been birds of doom announcing ultimate cataclysms, which did not happen, only, local, serious, like tsunami, earthquakes, financial, wars, massacres, etc ...

[Obamot]

Basically for Dedeleco, the background matters so little ...

... as long as he can exercise his spirit of contradiction

[sen-no-sen]

With Jancovici, decreasing of everything except nuclear, we will especially, all of us, alive in 200mSieverts / year, "undocumented" dose regardless of the number of deaths,, declared dead for fear of radioactivity, in a meteoric growth of nuclear power, and its inevitable catastrophes, since men are not infallible in perpetuity !!!

And rebelote, it's not the dedicated subject!

It must be admitted that Janco is right, it will be very hard to replace nuclear power with renewable energy - given the dogma prevailing over energy production - even though fossil fuels will be less and less available.


Not to want to prepare for the decline, we are going to take a nice recession in the figure, with consequences that are difficult to envisage.

Our comfort, 20 ° C warm in winter, decent food, travel, simple holidays, less than 8 hours of work 5 days a week (dream for some of the developing countries), etc ...

The holidays will be very very simple ... at the bottom of the garden!