Pac Quote Air Air Hitachi zone H1c

[shifter]

Hello everyone,

I submit to quote, to your expertise. I have to heat a 136 m2 RT 2000 house. Located in the Loire, at an altitude of 850m.

I own at the present day all-electric radiant panel.

The solution that I am offered Pac Air Air Hitachi.

The quote is about 2 Split that feeds from 91,98m2 DRC
Another split in the attic that feeds the floor of 44,8M2
+ A thermo dynamic water heater. For hot water.

My main question is about the quality of the material and its ability to heat the house.

I would also like to know your opinion on the price.

Thank you for your answers. Nicolas

[dedeleco]

This estimate, vague enough, does not guarantee anything about the efficiency of the PACS real with your climate at altitude 850m in the Loire, not hot at all in the winter !!
Nothing specific about the details of installation, locations, pipes, lengths, appearance, plan layout of the ducts, which will surprise you during installation !!

Having been made by an architect with a CAP become almost irreparable 3 years after its installation, (without the miracle of the last one that remained unsold to repair it), in one of my houses, you can rest assured that these PAcs will be replace in ten years if not 3 years as for me, for many reasons, technological progress, pieces not found, more manufactured, obsolescence programmed, etc ...
So you go to pay 18500 € every ten to fifteen years !!!
The dream for the installers of the customer cowhide !!!

For me, luckily I had a fireplace with insert and distribution of hot air in the rooms, laying and heating much cheaper than the Pacs and eternal life.
Also with all the wood and free plants that I see thrown around my home, I have much more than necessary to heat the wood by recovering it.
So heat yourself to the free woods like me and first isolate your home better especially the attic and do not favor the nuclear with PACs whose performance plummets if the outside air is cold with even the risk that the PACs consume more than the simple electric heating of front by very big cold !!!
(misfortune happened to some and is avoided with a Canadian underground well that provides air at 10 ° C).
This type of PAC works much better in the PACA region with winters at 8 ° C generally still positive, as for my house in the 83, with its milk cow cap to change 9 years later!
Ask to see and check the advice of users of these PACs near you at 850m altitude, by the same installer, and especially check the performance measured by users.

There was a cap to 30000 € that never worked after paying, for friends of my family !!! with the company that has gone bankrupt and unable to get back its money, nor to have the PAC that works. 30000 € evaporated !!!

Personally I have more confidence (risk of bankruptcy by paying for nothing) and in your place, I would choose first isolate the best, then free or paid wood heating (in the upper Loire at 850m, there must be full of wood easily ???)

You are sure to be able to heat yourself, even if there is a power failure, like a storm (like Christmas 1999) or in France a nuclear power plant that melts its heart, like in Fukushima in Japan, which will happen sooner or later in France, because men can not be infallible in perpetuity !!!

Instead, pay yourself a mixed wood pellet burner boiler or, at the same time, a wood insert with hot air distribution and a continuous pellet stove, for well under 18000 €

[the middle]

Nothing to add to DD's answer.
Very complete as answer.

[dedeleco]

If, no info on the volume of the thermodynamic balloon and its electric power and COP and its actual heating power !!
Same for climates to 5KW each, is this the electric power or heating ???????
Only the estimate is contractual, and in case of problem, the installer is required to respect its estimate and therefore the installer writes as little as possible to not be required to respect its unwritten commitments (verbal to be written in the quote with great details !!)
and the client has an interest in having a verbal statement written. We must even predict all possible traps and scams, especially for complex technology PACs with fluids, standards and microprocessors that change like wind vanes
It is even a test of honesty of the installer, whether he accepts or refuses to write his promises in the quote!

Ask to have commitment of supply of all pieces of PÄCs during 15 to 20 years !!!!

A priori the 5KW is in heating and how much electric, and COP, by which T outside, and its variations with T ext, in particular -18 ° C to ask guaranteed?, And then 5x2 = 10KW strongly reduced to 2KW by -18 ° C, to heat the house from 136 m2 to 850m altitude may be insufficient, especially if the attic has an insulation problem, (10cm of insulation is low, 20cm is better if possible).
How much did this house spend on KWh last winter ????
Required less than 100KWh / m2an for 10KW at my pif.
Check walls and leaks.

You have interest, even with PAC, to lay a chimney and to have a firewood heater if problem, (electrical failure, cold weather, easy and time-consuming breakdown of air conditioning that takes time or who discovers that the spare part takes months to arrive from Japan, or is no longer manufactured (my personal case, 3 years after installation !!!)) ..

The wood in the log has a high instantaneous power which allows to heat and to be warm whatever happens !!
That's what I have in each of my homes and I refuse houses without fireplace !!
To install first !!

[Forhorse]

I know nothing about PAC, but I really like the pettiness of paying for the removal of the old water heater!
When you are sold for more than 15.000 € (100.000 francs ...) of equipment, you can at least have the decency not to charge for the removal of the old one.
The advice of other stakeholders seem to me advised (especially the fact of making specify on the estimate the performance of the installation, kind of consumption forecast, yield, etc ...)

EDIT: on the other hand thermodynamic balloons seem to me to be a huge scam.
Already they cost 10 times more expensive than an electric balloon. The service life may be even shorter.
Are they really profitable? I advise you to make a small graph to compare the two.
Then, to use the heat of a room of the house, so to cool it, to heat water, does not seem to me to be the idea of ​​the century.
- Either the room is heated, and then what is not consumed by the water heater will be heated to compensate.
- Either the room is not heated, the COP is worse, the temperature of the room decreases and we lose the benefit of the thermal buffer between the outside and the house.

I have never tried or experienced any installation of this type, it is only apriori based on my own thinking. Nevertheless, I find the price abused for the promises of efficiency.
A simple solar thermal panel will also be effective to see more (supply of almost free hot water from May to September) and more sustainable for a similar investment (and even less self-construction)

[shifter]

Thank you for your wise and constructive comments.

In any case, I would ask the installer to include the performance of their product on the quote.

I have taken note of all the tips for extra insulation to bring home. By cons I can not have to walk.

I imperatively need a solution to replace the electric heater.
What are the brands of pac air or air and their characteristics to be sure to be quiet. And what price must he count.

[dedeleco]

By cons I can not have a fireplace.

For what reason, because it puzzles me, if you want you can always, by installing a chimney on the roof by a mason, then roofer, which is classic and can be done on all houses with roof !!!