Le Potager du Sloth: Gardening without fatigue more than Bio

[Did67]

Don't take this the wrong way, but this "way" is a dead end!

To assess whether a change, a "project", a "method" of gardening makes sense, one must always ask the question: is it generalizable to the greatest number?? What if everyone is like me...

The "organic" based on crushed horns or dried blood is very quickly limited: who are we going to dehorn? The cuckolds? Who are we going to bleed?

And it goes without saying that using second-hand increases the lifespan of equipment and therefore reduces the "pressure" on ecosystems, and more broadly the use of natural resources. This is going in the right direction. But it only works because others keep throwing too fast! This is only a niche - because others keep their equipment. And so that does not fundamentally change things! This is one of the many improvements to the system, at the margin. Like turning off the watches or putting aerators on the taps. It does not allow you to disconnect from networks.

It's an individual, reasonable answer. So I'm not against it. I do not criticize. But it's not a change... It's very limited and not at all in the "orders of magnitude" of the changes that will be needed!

I assure you: I do too. The "Surface" with which I write and give my conferences was bought second-hand ("at the end of its life" for the computer specialist who sold it to me 3 or 4 years ago; he had just bought a more recent model, more powerful; it is more than enough for me - even if the other day, it gave me a fright! In my conferences, my brain and my fatigue are the limiting factor - not the tablet!). All my cars are or have been second-hand... But all of these are computers or vehicles that consume, pollute, are connected...

Sometimes also, I buy new: freezer. To have A+++, which consumes less (the gain is not "profitable", I will never recover the "overcost" at the current price, but I will consume less).

[Rajqawee]

In fact, yes and no! I don't take it badly

1) It is possible that this is only a temporary niche: the market is full of cheap second-hand items, because it is already saturated with new items. At worst, it's a "godsend", ie a solution that is only temporary. It remains relevant to take advantage of it while it exists.

2) This brings you to think about your mode of consumption. Buying used necessarily means accepting less flexibility on many points. We don't necessarily have what we are looking for right away. Not necessarily the color you prefer. Not necessarily the exact size (the location for the cabinet is 78cm wide, we will be satisfied with a 75 cabinet, and too bad for the lost space). Casually, it teaches us to detox from the fact that the market responds in an individual, specific and immediate way. And when I have no other solution than to buy new, I am always amazed at the number of options (often useless), brands (which are all the same), for the same product. There is therefore an educational side, and those who have become accustomed to operating with a less "diversified" market will perhaps have a lesser descent when the real new market returns to something more sober. And he will come back.

3) In fact, in my opinion, the occasion, the second hand, only replaces a social phenomenon that has disappeared: the family second hand. There are 50 years and more, I am sure that everything was preserved and exchanged between neighbors and members of the same family. The clothes that made 10 kids. Furniture which, stored in the barn, helped the installation of the cousin having left the parental house. And so on. This social structure having disappeared, the second-hand market has only filled this hole. We may not have enough of a connection with the cousin thing to give him the furniture, but we have created a place of exchange which fulfills the same function, with strangers

[Did67]

We agree. I just put a light on the back of the room: the limits.

Like when I "criticize" the "organic" and point out its limits, it's not that I'm against it - as I'm sometimes blamed for not listening / reading what I'm saying. Or read the beginning of the paragraph only.

I point out limits. And the fact that, to REALLY change things, it will be necessary to go further!

Another example: a few years ago, the movement of "gleaners" who fed on scrap from the bins of supermarkets and hypermarkets enjoyed great notoriety. Sometimes I wish we talked about the PP so much in the mainstream media - but the PP is probably too sulphurous for the mainstream media to take it up*. This gleaning is the very example of something that cannot be generalized.

Not that it shouldn't be done - moreover, it resulted in a legislative change, but also in the fact that stores installed "DLC Courtes" shelving / fridge cabinets. They are the ones who recover (part of the margin) now! There are no small profits.

But that didn't change anything fundamentally. Or maybe a ten millionth... And it can't go any further.

Moreover, I think more cruelly that after seeing their ego treated by a media presence, these "gleaners" no longer glean anything. Or they are homeless and it is not the same.

* I am currently in negotiations with a reporter for a report on the PP. The "production" asks him for a "beautiful story", old varieties, terroirs, etc... You see? She, for her part, understood the logic of the PP... Perhaps she will manage to "divert" the order... We try to "script" to both respond to the order (otherwise, it won't happen!) AND stay scientifically right on the PP. The media do - almost - only respond to fads... And therefore to caricature thoughts.

[Moindreffor]

* I am currently in negotiations with a reporter for a report on the PP. The "production" asks him for a "beautiful story", old varieties, terroirs, etc... You see? She, for her part, understood the logic of the PP... Perhaps she will manage to "divert" the order... We try to "script" to both respond to the order (otherwise, it won't happen!) AND stay scientifically right on the PP. The media do - almost - only respond to fads... And therefore to caricature thoughts.

I wish you good luck for the knots in the brain, but we know your motivation and your finesse of mind to get around the blockages to ultimately get your message across, but it will still keep you busy and that's a challenge which must not be displeased to take up

[Moindreffor]

In fact, yes and no! I don't take it badly

1) It is possible that this is only a temporary niche: the market is full of cheap second-hand items, because it is already saturated with new items. At worst, it's a "godsend", ie a solution that is only temporary. It remains relevant to take advantage of it while it exists.

2) This brings you to think about your mode of consumption. Buying used necessarily means accepting less flexibility on many points. We don't necessarily have what we are looking for right away. Not necessarily the color you prefer. Not necessarily the exact size (the location for the cabinet is 78cm wide, we will be satisfied with a 75 cabinet, and too bad for the lost space). Casually, it teaches us to detox from the fact that the market responds in an individual, specific and immediate way. And when I have no other solution than to buy new, I am always amazed at the number of options (often useless), brands (which are all the same), for the same product. There is therefore an educational side, and those who have become accustomed to operating with a less "diversified" market will perhaps have a lesser descent when the real new market returns to something more sober. And he will come back.

3) In fact, in my opinion, the occasion, the second hand, only replaces a social phenomenon that has disappeared: the family second hand. There are 50 years and more, I am sure that everything was preserved and exchanged between neighbors and members of the same family. The clothes that made 10 kids. Furniture which, stored in the barn, helped the installation of the cousin having left the parental house. And so on. This social structure having disappeared, the second-hand market has only filled this hole. We may not have enough of a connection with the cousin thing to give him the furniture, but we have created a place of exchange which fulfills the same function, with strangers

I agree with you in the idea, I too am moving towards this kind of approach, but it is true that it is to take advantage of a market which only exists because there is a consumer market nearby still flourishing, one cannot exist without the other
as soon as Man no longer lived in family groups, where he had to produce "EVERYTHING" himself, in his group, he invented exchange, and that is where progress started, innovation, so as long as we progress we will produce

[Did67]

I wish you good luck for the knots in the brain, but we know your motivation and your finesse of mind to get around the blockages to ultimately get your message across, but it will still keep you busy and that's a challenge which must not be displeased to take up

I am clear on one point: all my life, I have done "entryism". I prefer to get my hands dirty, in inevitably questionable situations, where except going to the break, you have to make compromises. I worked with one of the most marked FDSEA on the right in France (people who had Sarkozy's 06!).

Just as I accept all the invitations, from the National Permaculture Meetings (when I had just released a "critical" video on this subject), to the Christians in the Rural World (to whom I casually placed that the PP was also a reaction to the very Judeo-Christian vision that you couldn't enjoy it without first shitting it) by passing the Workers' Gardens of Sélestat (knowing that in Workers' Gardens you can be evicted if your plot is n is not clean enough!).

Ditto for the media: I was on C8 (although I do not think less...). But also on Arte or France Inter...

So that's a non-issue for me. I go where I am invited. And I welcome the media who ask me...

What remains difficult is that you shoot hours of "rushes", but the final narration is the journalist who does it. And barring a shameless lie, you have no recourse. Basically, we can make you say whatever we want. It's kind of a trap. You have to have the upper hand over the journalist, to influence him enough so that in conscience, he does not tell the opposite of what you say. But it's still a bet!

But pragmatism obliges: in a conference, I "hit" 80 or 120 or sometimes 250 or 350 people. How many will change the way they act? Mystery. In general, I am quite convincing, as evidenced by book sales (at Primevère, around 50 of the first and 60 of the second!).

Even a bad report on a national media, it's I don't know a few hundred thousand to I don't know 1 or 2 million people. Even if the message is 80% corrupted, the remaining 20% ​​x 500 people, that makes a huge impact. In a few hours... And hours, I don't have so many more!

I wrote it one day here, somewhere: I'd rather change the behavior of 10% of French people by 50% than to change the behavior of 100 in 1 by 1%. The overall impact will be much better. "Extremist" attitudes rarely make big changes: they are rejected.

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

The principle is to have already given up on it....because it costs too much all this crap

For nearly 10 years, I have been buying as much as possible on the second-hand market, via flea markets, garage sales, LBC or... Emmaüs! It serves a good cause. I buy there:
- children's clothing. Around €1 per garment generally, in perfect condition.
-full of tools that never really wear out (a file, a pickaxe, a plane...wall lights for the exterior...pipe wrenches...I got the whole set by sorting the other day at Emmaüs in a mega crate full of everything, they gave it to me for 1€...the 15 keys)
-books, comics and others for children
-sports equipment for occasional activities (I equipped myself for 100% second-hand skiing. I think around €250 for 4 people, skis, shoes and clothes included!)
-furniture: there are incredible nuggets in the sales consignments or at Emmaüs. If I had known that when I started my adult life, I would never have bought anything new, I don't think. Massive tables, with a modern look, for 100€. Canapes for 50€, in quite decent condition. etc

Regarding phones, it's now been 7 years since I bought a single one: I collect those that colleagues or my family no longer use (because they have a newer, better one).

All of this also makes it possible to finance - somewhere - the fresh products (fruits, vegetables, cheese, eggs) bought at the market (which my wife does every week), which are more expensive but I prefer that my money go for these local workers who work in decent conditions with decent wages!
It also allows, recently, to look for hay for the season (and the construction of the clay pizza oven. Indispensable!), to find the two bales at 20€ the bale, and when the guy tells you "we make 10 € for transport for the two balls, that's €50 all delivered, are you okay? on leboncoin, to answer him "perfectly sold!" without a frown

The "give" section of the good corner is not bad either and free

[Rajqawee]

Yesterday's family activity after the rain:

[Adrien (ex-nico239)]

It will soon fall on me with the potatoes...

Otherwise there is another thing that will fall on the backs of individuals... wonder how they will do in town

Waste sorting: compost will become mandatory in 2024
https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-envir ... re-en-2024

[Rajqawee]

It will soon fall on me with the potatoes...

Otherwise there is another thing that will fall on the backs of individuals... wonder how they will do in town

Waste sorting: compost will become mandatory in 2024
https://www.francesoir.fr/societe-envir ... re-en-2024

I did it when I was in Ajaccio, in an apartment. I "produced" 40L of kitchen waste per week, which I took to the shared gardens. I buried them in my raised bins.
Other friends did it on their balcony: in fact, with a good amount of worms, the material mineralizes very, very quickly, and the final volume is negligible, of the order of "I have to empty it every 2 months ", for a container of 30 to 40L.
There were also "common" composters at the bottom of some buildings.

Another example, in Sardinia, the collection of "humido" green waste was done directly at the door, by the traditional services which also collected the rest of the waste.

The biggest obstacle is the reluctance of people who are not/no longer used to managing their waste. For many, handling decomposing matter takes a lot of effort.