Installation of a boiler stove on a boiler?

[loop]

Hi Mi16,

Here is what I think is the easiest for connection to the hydraulic unit.



I look for optimal connection of the balloon

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[mi16man]

hi looping

ok, this way of connecting is different from the one i told you about.

we agree that it favors heating as a priority?

in this configuration if the heating demand is zero the hot water will also allow the boiler (and therefore the DHW tank) to be reheated because the 3-way vanes will close and the hot water coming from the stove or tank will circulate in circuit closed between the valves and the boiler by the valve bypass?
am i good or not?

thank you anyway ... I hadn't thought of this configuration

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[mi16man]

well I have another proposal of tapping on the boiler ... concerning the Zone valve.
does it hold water or not ???

in fact I condemn track A and when the valve opens the return flows to B in the direction of the tank then boiler stove.
In fact I will mount it on the T of the boiler.

for what happens from the stove / balloon I stay on the collector.


it's less edits but I do not know if it's good ... in all cases the pipes arrive from the bottom of the boiler, through the basement where the ball is located.
The stove and the boiler are both on the ground floor but each at one end of the house.


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[loop]

I answer your first question

am i good or not?

That's not quite it, sorry.

If the heating requirement is zero, effectively there will be no circulation in the hydraulic groups because the circulator will be stopped and the 3-way valves on 100% recycling.

Now, if you make a fire or if the balloon is hot enough, the control logic will place the zone valve in B, or in A otherwise.
On B it is the "wood" part which supplies the circuit, and in A it is the fuel oil boiler (assembly in parallel and not in series).
But as long as the need is zero, no traffic to the transmitters and in this case, if you make a fire, it is necessary that the calories and the flow rate of the circulator of the insert go somewhere.
This is where the buffer tank loads.

Regarding your buffer tank, are you sure there are 3 coils or 2 coils and direct circulation of the water contained in the tank? (if you have a model number I could check with the doc)

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[loop]

Answer to the second question

does it hold water or not ???

To do what you plan, a 2-way valve would suffice, rather than blocking one of the 3 ways.

But hey, the problem is not there.
In the case that you describe, you will not know where the flow will actually go because it can take the easiest path (the boiler) and loop back on the insert rather than loading the balloon (this is the case that I describe at the beginning of the subject).

Otherwise, it is necessary to control this valve at the opening only if there is a need for heating, and there we gain nothing compared to the other principle.

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[mi16man]

Hello !

good then for the balloon I checked you're right!
2 coil and direct circulation for the solar water from the balloon.

the model is a SANCUBE SCS 540/1

But as long as the need is zero, no traffic to the transmitters and in this case, if you make a fire, it is necessary that the calories and the flow rate of the circulator of the insert go somewhere.
This is where the buffer tank loads.

above we agree, but if my regulation says:
if the tank has 40 ° therefore loaded: opening of the zone valve I switch to "wood" mode
and that at the same time my heating need is zero !!

what is happening?
the balloon continues to charge? beyond its zone valve opening setpoint temperature?
would it not be possible to use this surplus for DHW? (it will rarely happen I think but hey

Otherwise, it is necessary to control this valve at the opening only if there is a need for heating, and there we gain nothing compared to the other principle.

I see what you mean in fact I do not switch "purely" from one system to another with this connection because the water from the radiators continues to return in part to the boiler?

whereas with your zone valve connection it is either "wood" or "boiler".


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[loop]

Bonjour,

That's it, I finally found a sketch of the manufacturer concerning your model of balloon.
I confirm that this model is in principle dedicated to solar DHW / backup by boiler.

The principle of solar circulation is based on self-draining by gravity. The stock water, therefore the 500L, is used as heat transfer fluid.
This volume cannot be connected to a pressure circuit .

The boiler is topped up by an exchanger in the middle part. This coil can be connected to a conventional installation under pressure. But its surface is reduced, therefore low power for a small delta T °.

The DHW is produced by a so-called "instantaneous" exchanger. It is made of corrugated stainless steel and of sufficient surface to pass the water from 15 ° to the temperature of the top of the stock (in principle at least 55 ° C).
This coil can withstand network pressure (3 to 6 bars at least)

[loop]

if the tank has 40 ° therefore loaded: opening of the zone valve I switch to "wood" mode and at the same time my heating requirement is zero !!
what is happening?
the balloon continues to charge? beyond its zone valve opening setpoint temperature?

Of course, the tank will continue to charge if the need is zero, because the circulation in the transmitters does not depend on the position of the zone valve in A or B, but on the group mixing valves.

The 40 ° probe indicates that hot water is available where the probe is placed. In general, it is placed at the top of the stock or on the "hot" stitching. However, this does not mean that the balloon is loaded, for this you need a second probe at the bottom of the stock.

I see what you mean in fact I do not switch "purely" from one system to another with this connection because the water from the radiators continues to return in part to the boiler?
whereas with your zone valve connection it is either "wood" or "boiler".

With your principle, water can circulate unnecessarily in the boiler, but not even in the tank because there is a circuit with a dedicated pump (we can guess in the photo)
It is necessary to avoid that water can take 2 random paths.

would it not be possible to use this surplus for DHW

With your regulation you will be able to proceed by priority heating or DHW but your interest will be to cut the boiler as soon as possible (from March-April) and to produce DHW only with Rotex and to make fire only in the evening for example .

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[mi16man]

Hello !

so my balloon is not intended for this type of use!

but do you think i can still use it as an exchanger ??

or divert its use by connecting the heating to the stainless steel coil which is used for the DHW to have a larger exchange surface ?? (besides this must be an older model that I have because from what I could see the DHW coil is in "PER")

or would it be wise to modify the heating exchanger by extending it and thus create a larger exchange surface?

or even connect the stove to the DHW and the heating to the heating ???

for the moment I do not have the means to buy a balloon so I can plan the mounting of a future balloon dedicated only to heating ... but for the moment it is necessary that I manage to use this one!

for the connection of the zone valve I will do as you told me so it will be all or nothing ... this will allow me to shut down the boiler ...
but a question remains:

With your regulation you will be able to proceed by priority heating or DHW but your interest will be to cut the boiler as soon as possible (from March-April) and to produce DHW only with Rotex and to make fire only in the evening for example .

does that mean that I have to connect the ROTEX to the DHW too?!?

on the other hand for the balloon tapping I am a little lost ....


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ps: i started to knock on the programmable automatons ... well there is a job!

[loop]

Bonjour,

I found the installation manual for your model, which according to the version, dates from 2006.

http://fr.rotex-heating.com/installateurs/documentations-techniques/archives/solaris.html?tx_damdownloads_pi1%5Bdownload%5D=2012

The DHW exchanger is in PE-X
The stainless steel heating exchanger with a surface of 1.1m2

Below the extract showing the connections (on yours there is one less central exchanger, precisely dedicated to heating normally)



Avoid passing a heating circuit through a DHW exchanger because it will be polluted. You can do DHW preheating and send the water into the boiler preparer (be careful, the pipe between the 2 must be as short as possible)

On the other hand, the connection of the existing "heating" coil is possible, but since it is located in a very low intermediate section, the buffer effect will be reduced.
It costs nothing to try . The holes appear to be a good size 1 "3/4.
You can actually consider increasing the height of the coil and therefore its surface, so as to have the efficiency of a 540/2 model (the drawing above).

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