Pac swimming pool for heating

[Coconuts]

The Pac to heat the pools is the only advantage of air conditioning the house is everything, not for the heating of the house.

There I no longer understand!
A Pac is indeed a heat exchanger.
A pool cap heats the pool (unless I'm on Venus, I don't see the point in cooling a pool).
So why shouldn't a swimming pool heat the house in winter?

[Other]

Hello

The Pac to heat the pools is the only advantage of air conditioning the house is everything, not for the heating of the house.

There I no longer understand!
A Pac is indeed a heat exchanger.
A pool cap heats the pool (unless I'm on Venus, I don't see the point in cooling a pool).
So why shouldn't a swimming pool heat the house in winter?

A cap does nothing but pump heat
so on one side it cools down and on the other side it heats up

In summer it cools the air in the house and heats the water in the swimming pool.
In winter, the process is reversed, the house is heated and the heat must be pumped into the pool water and therefore cooled.
and this solution cannot work, even the water from the aqueduct is not suitable in winter to operate a heat pump first it is illegal and it is too cold, it takes water at a temperature of at least 8c.
with the figures I gave above a water flow of 30 liters per minute which enters at 10c and comes out at 4c it does not take long to lower the temperature of a large body of water.
It's been 17 years since I have a system with water from the earth that works in a loop pumping in a well and returning cold water in another well the groundwater becomes in a way (the swimming pool) the pumping water was initially at 12 ° C it descends after 3 months of operation, at 8 ° C, which becomes the operating limit of the heat pump.
I thought I understood that you had a swimming pool, but I think it's just the use of the swimming pool heat pump and that you want to use the water as the medium in the house and the air as the medium for pumping?

Now if your idea is to operate an air / water heat pump
to use the medium air for the outdoor exchanger and with hot water to heat the house in winter when the air temperature drops below Zero and more, the efficiency of the heat pump crashes 1,5 or even not does not work anymore..
The heat pump for swimming pool always works in summer it is relatively easy for the evaporator to work at more than 20c or even 30c
to have performance with a heat pump in winter, you must not use the outside air or geothermal energy or water available at 12 c.


Andre

[Coconuts]

Thank you André for your answer!

Now if your idea is to operate an air / water heat pump
to use the medium air for the outdoor exchanger and with hot water to heat the house in winter

YES ! I DON'T HAVE A POOL!

air temperature drops below Zero and above

In Brittany, the temperature rarely drops below zero.

The heat pump for swimming pool always works in summer it is relatively easy for the evaporator to work at more than 20c or even 30c

There I understand, the evaporator and the condenser are designed (adjusted?) To operate with higher air temperatures.

I had read that for pacs (whatever the system), the greater the temperature difference (between drawing and use), the better the performance. (law of thermodynamics).

in winter do not use the outside air either geothermal energy or water available at 12 c

The problem of horizontal geothermal energy is a weakening of the Cop in a few years to reach that of an air / water pac. The system is more restrictive and more expensive to implement.
For geothermal energy (vertical drawing system), drilling is very expensive: at home you have to drill more than 60m or even 80m!
Depreciation over 15-20 years is not profitable!

Question to specialists: can we adjust or modify a swimming pool cap to make it evolve over a more adequate temperature range (to heat a heated floor in winter, I repeat)?
average t ° in winter: 3 to 8 °
average t ° in summer: 20 °

Note: I have friends who have a classic air / water cap and who never need the extra (8 years of use and only 2 days of using their fireplace for heating)

Sorry if I bother you with my questions, but I am just as interested in theory as I am in practice.
Thanks for the answers. [/ B] [/ i]

[Meurdoc]

Without having carried out a precise technical study (because it is not easy to know what exactly they put in their caps), the difference between an air / water cap to heat your house, and an air / water cap to heat your pool and simply a matter of sizing.

In reality, swimming pool caps are dimensioned (most often apparently) for an air temperature of 15 ° C and they then guarantee a pool water temperature of 28 ° C.

The pacs for the house are sized for an outside air temperature of 7 ° C and a water temperature of the heating circuit of 35 ° C, because it is the temperature of the heating water that circulates in a heated floor (in any case the COP is calculated at these temperatures)
In addition, the pac for home must withstand extreme winter outside temperatures, some therefore announce an operation down to -10 ° others (more expensive) announce -20 °.

So even if the volume of water to be heated is lower for a cap intended for house heating, the conditions are more restrictive

you should know that the greater the temperature difference between the cold source and the hot source, the more the COP drops. this explains why the COP announced for caps for swimming pools is higher because it is not measured under the same conditions. And it is very difficult to have the measurements to compare to normal pacs ... oddly enough


The financial and performance appeal of pacs intended for swimming pool heating can therefore be explained by their sizing for different operating regimes, as well as performance measurements carried out under different conditions.

So I do not advise you to use a cap intended for heating a swimming pool to heat your house.
In addition (I have not checked but it is a suspicion), I think that if you have the slightest failure on your system, the warranty may not work because you will not have to respect the conditions of use of the material, so you will only have to choose between paying for the repairs (with labor ... they may be as expensive as the price of your cap) or buying a cap intended to heat your house. .. lol

This is my point of view but I would like to know if people do not agree because I do not have the truth.

Thank you and see you soon.

[Coconuts]

Thank you Meurdoc for this info.
My choice will indeed be oriented on a residential heat pump: a little more expensive, but which will offer the best performance.
I also plan to install (or manufacture) thermal solar panels.
See you soon
Coconuts

[Meurdoc]

If you hesitate between the two, and you are not afraid to invest for the long term, choose solar panels!

it is much more eco (no) logical. (watch out for thermals!)

your investment (depending on where you are right now) for a combined solar system can be recouped in about 7-10 years. very random number

but in any case I strongly advise you to seriously study the possibility of the panels before that of the CAP.

On the other hand, the panels will not meet all of your needs, so this is where you may need a pac, even if in general, the panels are installed as a back-up to the boiler or associated with a heating at the wood (insert, stove and sometimes ... automatic boiler)

The best is that you contact the ADEME of your region or the energy info space. but the ademe deals with files, and the more "exemplary" it is (in their words! lol) the more it interests them because it allows them to say: "look, we did that here, such type of house ... and It works very well!"

In addition, if you are lucky you may even be able to obtain financial aid from them.


There you go, good luck and above all good luck.

see you


PS: the right link for more info is www.afpac.org