electrolysis improved

[pluesy]

personally I do not recommend doing tests with sulfuric acid and it can be very effective but it is very dangerous (I have personally eaten several clothes with this m ....) I will do tests with acetic acid (vinnaigre! sold 0.30euro the liter in large surface) it is cheaper and more ecological

I keep you informed of the measures

[Rabbit]

Something comes to mind, is it not desirable to
harvest H and O2 separately? Only after electrolysis
the gases produced are of explosive proportions.
Maybe it makes sense to keep them separate until use.
I am thinking in particular of a welding job. Because it
minimum pressure and a detonating mixture
under pressure it's hot.
Especially if you set it on fire.

[pluesy]

In my opinion it separates by itself

let me explain ... hydrogen is a gas 16 times lighter than oxygen and its release in electrolysis and twice as important
so in the free space above the plates and the fleet the upper 2/3 are occupied by hydrogen and the lower 1/3 by oxygen

1 hose to collect the hydrogen above
1 hose flush with the fleet for oxygen
and voila

if I made a mistake wherever I am caught because I don't want someone to blow their face because I said bullshit ...

[gegyx]

Bonjour.
Why are you breaking your head, to reinvent electrolysis?
I quoted you on brown gas, as a track.
With a tank, strongly basic (soda), where plunge, a series of stainless steel interlayer electrodes, between which is divided (divides) the input voltage connected to the two ends, in as many minimum under voltages sufficient for the decomposition of the water.
The simplest is to leave the gas mixture that has just formed, in the same ideal proportions for the recomposition of water (stoichiometric mixture); the energy will be maximum (and may be more than expected, because there would not be only pure H2 and O2). Care must be taken in the construction, for corrosion and welding, of pressure and temperature sensors to cut the current, simple level sensors to re-supply water and a valve; by doubling the security, there is a greater risk ...
As an essential precaution, the recovered mixture must be passed over the plates, through one or even two water filters (better barrier to stop a possible flashback), before use.
Gas is produced on demand, at very slight pressure, and is used immediately. Provide waterproof inspection hatch to check and clean the tank, check the water level in the filters, after moderate use.

For the electrolyte, it is instructive to take an interest in CFR and Bingo Fuel from JL Naudin http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/ape/index.htm
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/cfr/html/cfr12fr.htm
Baking soda or potash looks interesting. But a week ago I found it even more original and more promising; water mixed with wood ash http://omael.net/hydroplasmol/_projet_page_1_.htm
We must clearly differentiate between electrolysis and these 3 experiences cited:
-Bingofuel, combustible gas resulting from the decomposition of coal in water, under strong current.
-The CFR (said, cold fusion), stainless steel and tungsten electrodes (wearing under a strong arc), to heat water.
-The Hydro Plasmol Demonstrator, invented to replace the expensive tungsten electrode with iron; adding vegetable charcoal to the mixture, attenuates light energy and strengthens heat energy.
This last device, with a large magnet under the jar, is supposed to have experienced the Synergetic theory of RLVallée (carbon subjected to a magnetic and electric field, emitting beta radiation); but it also seems to do a little CFR, with the arc in the water; and I think there is also a bit of Bingo Fuel, because it seems that there is also a burning of carbon in the water.
If it's not a mix, all this!

Gegyx

[lau]

Very interesting!
Definitely I learn it every day on this site!
Bingofioul, quasiturbine ... so many "conventional" alternative solutions to reduce polluting emissions, or even eliminate them entirely

[aidiv]

pluesy said: "hydrogen is a gas 16 times lighter than oxygen and its release in electrolysis and twice as important
so in the free space above the plates and the fleet the upper 2/3 are occupied by hydrogen and the lower 1/3 by oxygen "

for info I also add that the oxygen atom being much larger, it will take much more space and weight

In 1 kilo of water, there is approximately 900 grams of oxygen

in the same way in a kilo of petrol hydrogen is only about 12% the rest of the weight is carbon in the majority

[aidiv]

gegyx said:
"With a tank, strongly basic (soda), where plunge, a series of stainless steel interlayer electrodes, between which is divided (divides) the input voltage connected to the two ends, in as many minimum undervoltages sufficient for decomposition some water. "

after having seen similar assemblies I would like to specify that to make this kind of tank, it is necessary, as for a car battery to separate the tank in 6 and not to put 6 electrodes in the same tank, because if not the electricity will pass from l 'electrode + to that connect at least without going through the intermediate electrode and this amounts to doing an electrolysis in 12 v

[nlc]

Response to gegyx:

I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel. There is actually brown gas, which I discovered after my interest in electrolysis, which is therefore normal electrolysis, and which mixes O2 and 2H2.

I am precisely looking for an economical solution to make the maximum of gas with the minimum of current, ie to optimize the electrolysis. And it turns out that the best thing is to supply low voltage, 2V for example, and high current.
This is exactly what the brown gas torches do, they have 120 cells which draw for example 12A under 2V, and they put them in series on 240V. They are therefore capable of generating 12x0.667x120L / h, or nearly 1000l / h.

But according to the experiments that we made yesterday with dudu, it will be very difficult to manufacture a cell drawing 12A under 2V. In my opinion, without water additive, it is mission impossible.

Helpful response:
For the serialization, it seems that it is not necessary to separate the cells! At the beginning this is what I thought too, but I tried it out and it was not.

In fact it is explained quite easily, the current always seeks the shortest path.
So let's admit 2 plates of 100x100 thickness 1mm spaced 10mm apart.
One of the plates is the most, the other is the least. We manage to get 1A under 12V (by adding an additive). We deliver 0.667l / h for a power of 12W.

Then I insert a 3rd plate between the 2, in the center. There will be the same "resistance" between the 2 electrodes (even a little less because the thickness of the central plate means that there is no longer 1cm of water in total but 9mm). So on the 12V, we will always draw 1A. But now I have 2 cells, powered by 6V each and 1A.
Well I make 2x more gas for the same power, which has not moved (12W).
On this principle, we can continue by intercalating other plates, until the moment when we arrive at 2V per cell.

A+

Cyril

[stero11]

hi nlc ...
You have not tried to put your plates closer ... instead of putting them at 1 cm, put them at 1mm for example?
What have you tried before?

[nlc]

;)

Above it was just for the example and to show that the serialization of cells could be in the same container.

In fact I already work with spacings of the order of mm, or even less.
The concern is that if it's too close, the bubbles get stuck. To have a good electrolysis, I think that we will have to do:
- Very short distance between the electrodes (0.5mm for example)
- Water circulation to take off the bubbles
- Quite large area of ​​electrodes
- Additive in water to make it more conductive