Is diesel less polluting than gasoline ??

[peace_angelh]

Yes the diesel cars are still sold without particle filters and EGR valve.

This allows PSA, Renault mainly to sell their little diesel cheaper but very polluting especially for small particles and the famous benzopyrenes!

The most astonishing thing is that the state premium on "non-polluting" cars is only based on the emission of CO² and not on particles or NOx, which are however very bad for health ...

http://www.lefigaro.fr/automobile/2008/ ... giques.php




In France, in the Paris region diesel cars are represented between 2 / 3 and 3 / 4 traffic, but there is no prohibition or even incentive (it's even the opposite given the price of the SP98 ...)
For public health problems alas, this has already begun, and, even if it is much more discreet, it is not near (in my opinion) to stop:
Sorry for low speed in advance: (I can put the scan in spoiler if it poses pbl).




[Spoiler][/ Spoiler]

[Spoiler][/ Spoiler]
...

http://jean.louchet.free.fr/perso/diesel.html

[jean63]

Thank you peace_angelh for all this info.

As I have said many times in this forum and that I was copiously "knocked out", I note that my forecasts are confirmed ...... and will be confirmed more and more unfortunately.

Yes, since we only want to deal with CO2 and count negligible pollutant components on the ground as particles, we run to disaster: cancers and cardiovascular diseases, pulmonary ... etc do not have finished growing.

The LPG whatever it says deserved the green chip that is still on the windshield of my R25 GPL since 2000.

Diesel in the city and still diesel, a scandal like asbestos size XXXXL for a few years and for our children. They will not have a retirement problem; maybe that's what our leaders want?

Extract from the site http://jean.louchet.free.fr :

Contrary to popular belief, consumption and pollution do not go together but are contradictory:

At equal power, an engine that consumes little (and therefore produces little CO2) will be more polluting (in terms of toxic products) than a motor that consumes more!

Precisely, it turns out that the diesel engines of passenger vehicles, which we have boasted (and still boast) the virtues, and which are actually rather moderate in terms of production of CO2, are among the cars, the main guilty

contribution to the greenhouse effect (through the production of organic microparticles)
direct health effects (by these same microparticles with a benzene nucleus, which can not be filtered, neither by catalytic converters nor by particle filters)
The very official report of the AFSSE provides for France, 30000 (thirty thousand) new annual cancer cases per year that would be avoided if all engines of diesel passenger cars were converted to gasoline engines! The AFSSE report, a bit arid, is here: http://jean.louchet.free.fr/perso/AFSSE ... esel_1.pdf), but on health effects, I suggest you always look on my site, the page already mentioned http://jean.louchet.free.fr/diesel which gives a first idea of ​​the current catastrophe: cancers of the lungs, brain, ovaries, liver, etc., without counting tens or hundreds of thousands of less serious but often disabling conditions and at significant economic cost (asthma , allergies, etc.)
This is why, with a group of medical friends, we are proposing that the future "pollution sticker" be based not on the production of CO2 (which would favor the most polluting vehicles!) But on the real production of toxic molecules.

In this context, "gasoline" and "diesel" engines would be treated equally, ie measured with the same criteria, and not criteria biased in favor of the most polluting engines!

Japan has already practically banned diesel from its territory, not on principle but for sanitary reasons. The United States has finally taken pollution problems seriously and is preparing to do the same. We do not ask as much: there is no question of punishing the people who made the choice of diesel in good faith (who are the first victims and who, often, had no choice because of the current system of fuel taxation), but to stop favoring the most polluting engines on new vehicles.

it makes you shudder !! Come on Mr Boorlo tell us everything you know, later it will be, the harder it will be to recognize the truth and backtrack.

We are made the same blow with Chernobyl, asbestos, mad cow, growth hormone ..... etc ... the alerters are embarrassers and economic growth stunners.

[Chatham]

- on the other hand, a colleague who has just bought an Opel Astra 1,7 L ctdi from 100 cv given to the ade for 138 g CO2 / km and this one classified light green C (in short a green car) or almost. This car is given to 5,1 l / 100 by the manufacturer in mixed driving. This is the theory but in practice, the reality is very different. My colleague tends to have a heavy foot and on an extra-urban course, he realized 630 kms with 44 liters of diesel, which makes us 6,98 l / 100.

It must have very heavy foot because with my C2 1.4cv 90cv petrol box robotic (~ 150kg less than an astra) I do the 5.8L / 100 average and 4.8L 90km / h ... (given 133g / km from Co²)
To overtake 6.5L / 100 must I roll by pulling all the reports to 6000tr ... like what diesel is especially interesting on a heavy vehicle ... much less on a light and aerodynamic ...

[peace_angelh]

And to say that the bonus penalty favors small diesel cars that are not even equipped with the least particulate filter it's really anything that to be based only on CO² to say that a car is polluting .. .
No consideration of particulates and NOx, however very harmful ... (and I'm not even talking about cars equipped for E85 that the state considers to be very "polluting" because the state assumes that these cars run 100% of the time with SP98 and therefore emit more CO²! )

It is either incompetence or it is done on purpose because France is well placed in the sector of small diesel vehicles without particulate filter ...
Compared to the German cars for example ...

So it's just a car lobby story, an arrangement between PSA, Renault, Total, and the government ...

But who will finance the fight against all these new cancers that will appear in a few years? Do you realize the price to pay for the secu?
There we go altogether on a different scale than asbestos ...

Smoking is banned in public places but not the least coercive measure against diesel! On the contrary ! the state favors their sale. In 2008 sales of diesel will represent more than 85% of new car sales, it is time to do as in Japan or Holland and do something to get out of Diesel in France!

[jean63]

100% agree with you, but apparently we are only 2 here in this forum to be convinced of the dangerousness of these diesel vehicles.

I went to see in ebay to see the proportion of used vehicles, for example 406 break:
I found 2 LPG, a dozen gasoline and fifty diesel (mainly Hdi).

The Hdi is necessarily very attractive: low consumption (6 l / 100 km), big autonomy (1100 kms), nervousness, little noisy .... etc on paper .... that benefits.

The same gasoline vehicle (conso gasoline: 8,5l / 100); LPG tank of 55 liters (conso: 10 l / 100, autonomy in LPG mode: 500 kms) ..... then of course, why bother with LPG yet very clean exhaust (there is only 'to look at oil and candles after thousands of miles to realize it).

[Other]

Hello

I think it's both pollutants can be more diesel than gasoline, but one touches a political stakes
Europe and more particularly, the French car industry, we invest a lot in research and improvement of the diesel engine (not directly to make it less polluting, but especially to make it as attactive as the petrol engine, nervous and powerful , quieter, more economical, more light ect ..
With the complacency of the government that sells diesel fuel is cheaper than gasoline fuel.
the French automotive diesel industry will remain a captive market in France and the neighboring country, it will not penetrate the American market, Mercedes sells very little diesel in America even with the diesel Smart little success ..

The solution is not diesel versus petrol, but all electric, even if all countries do not yet have the technology to produce the current in a renewable way, it is necessary to be ready with the electric car, which is perfected and well focus ...
I find the research a little shy for all electrical

The hybrid solution is just a transition, much like the navy in 1870 the boats kept the sails and had steam engines not by economy, but by lack of reliability and confidence.
Andre

[peace_angelh]

Certainly the electric car or compressed air will arrive, but there will be many obstacles for their real appearance ...

It is enough to see the few stations equipped with LPG and which decreases again each year ...

The car and oil and economic lobby are so powerful that it blocks all that does not bring enough money, the electric car will bring a little to EDF and the dealer but it will be really nothing compared to a diesel car for example. ..

But to come back to 2008 I think it is urgent for the state to take a decision to favor small gasoline engines in cities.
As soon as there is not enough wind in Paris, particle and NOx pollution reaches critical levels for health, well beyond WHO recommendations!

Japan has simply banned the circulation of VL Diesel cars in several major cities for health reasons.
In some European countries there is a similar important penalty to pay every year for the owners of Diesel ... (the opposite of France!)

What are France and Paris waiting to take action?

[jean63]

Japan has simply banned the circulation of VL Diesel cars in several major cities for health reasons.
In some European countries there is one major penalty to pay each year for the owners of Diesel ... (the opposite of France!)

What are France and Paris waiting to take action?

Have you ever seen or read about these dangers of diesel in the French media?

I believe I had heard about it in the "journal de la santé" on FR5 but I don't know when ... should I research.

[peace_angelh]

The media are either ignorant or have instructions not to frighten the population, (a bit like Charnobyl who has never crossed France ...
)
Almost the only program which denounced the diesel problem is on the RMC radio in "your car" on Sunday morning between 8h and 10h ... for example:


http://stat3.cybermonitor.com/m/media/r ... 9h_rmc.mp3
http://www.rmc.fr/podcast/podcast.php?id=50&start=60

Another study on micro particles (benzopyrenes) of diesel engines:
http://www.info-systel.com/jbreton/toxi ... sel.fr.htm

https://www.econologie.com/file/environn ... icules.pdf

[sulked]

Hi everybody,

I just wanted to show you that you are not that 2 to think that of Diesel, I am with you ..... and surely else, but bcp does not dare to express itself!

I have only one argument, unlike all your documentation and arguments extremely interesting.

My argument is about an experience I had when working at Renault. I was doing T ° engine water measurements on a Diesel Master in the shop when a colleague was having fun putting the exhaust through the vehicle window, and I was of course in Accel ( env3000tr).
I stayed only a few seconds because it was breathless, and it did not prevent me from coughing like a patient, but that's not much compared to the rest ... 2 / 3 day after day I started to have a runny nose with sunsets important, I still remember the worst night of my life, .... it took me almost 3 4 months to no longer have breathing difficulty, but since, as soon as the smell of diesel exhaust reaches my little nose I feel the same symptoms that happen ... moreover I became extremely sensitive to the pollenization or cremation chemicals that still make me once sank my little nose ...

So some will find this argument farfelu, for my part I suggest you to do the same experience, ie take a good breath of oil and give me your impressions, made the same with an essence and after judged ....

I complained to all the dieselists convinced that diesel is clean and safe in nature .... that does not mean that I approve of gasoline without consideration, but just that I favor it ...

Good fight to all those who just want the best for them and their children ..